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  #1  
Old 06-17-2005, 09:28 AM
GottaDiesel's Avatar
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Russia broke?

OK, All I really ask is that we try (hard) to not turn this into a political thread if possible.

Here we go.

People seem to think that Russia (or whatever we're calling it today) is broke. The subs are rusting away, the oil company is ruined, blah blah blah. First, I don't buy it for one minute. Russia is a HUGE economy with vast resources and hard working people (when they want to be... just like us!). What I don't understand is when people read an article like this:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-06/17/content_3098790.htm

Doesn't it make people think twice? Would a country in "trouble" really be doing things like this?

Seems to me the thought that the "cold war" destroyed them just isn't true.

Do you think they are still a theat?

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  #2  
Old 06-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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Well first of all, Xinhuanet is an official organ of the Chicoms and they have been pi$$ed at the Russians since the Czars kicked the Chinese empire out 500 years ago. And vice versa. Recall that China and the USSR engaged in a decades-long conflict and occasional shooting war over Mongolia. So given the history of the relationship and the source cited,....

Russia is neither a complete despotic system nor is it a functional democracy. It has always had an organized crim syndicate, sometimes it was in favor udner the czars and sometimes not. It was the source of the middle class that tried for power in 1914. The middleclass was nearly destroyed by the bolshoviks and later, the communists under Lenin and especially Stalin so it went back udnerground as a crime synidcate. With the Soviet collapse, the middleclass came back out from under the rock and the criminal element grasped for power. The criminal class has reached the highest levels of power in Russia and the middleclass has grown tremendously. The government is trying to appease three masters: the crime syndicates, the middleclass, and the gov civil service which is still largely the same as under the communists.

IOTW, it is nearly chaotic. And they have thousands of nukes and an underpaid, undisciplined, marginally loyal armed forces facing an Islamist insurgency.

Russia is extremely dangerous.
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:54 PM
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Additionally, I read somewhere that they claim to have developed an ICBM that has some sort of cruise missile-like capability, that is the option of changing course. It wouldn't take much of a change of course to evade one of our SDI missiles, if that system can ever be made reliable, because the warheads are traveling at 10,000 mph. I would imagine our inteceptors would need to be able to chart the warhead's course pretty accurately to be able to take it out and at that speed, a small change would equal hudreds of yards of difference.
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2005, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
Additionally, I read somewhere that they claim to have developed an ICBM that has some sort of cruise missile-like capability, that is the option of changing course. It wouldn't take much of a change of course to evade one of our SDI missiles, if that system can ever be made reliable, because the warheads are traveling at 10,000 mph. I would imagine our inteceptors would need to be able to chart the warhead's course pretty accurately to be able to take it out and at that speed, a small change would equal hudreds of yards of difference.
SDI missle might have a problem. SDI laser would give a flip how fast and maneuverable the target is. At a 186,000 Miles per second you don't lead, you just hold it on target and make a teenie hole. Doesn't take a big hole. Ask the space shuttle astronauts. The SDI missle thing is good for N. Korea-type slow suborbital un-MIRV'd single warheads. You develop systems to meet the threat.
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2005, 09:49 PM
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I have spent a total of three months in Russia.
Moscow.
Rostov.
Volgagrad.
Suchi.
Adler.

The place looks worn out.
The roads all over are pot holed beyond belief.
Trains run at 20 to 40 mph at best....Diesel electric.
The closer you get to Moscow the better the infrastructure is.
Poverty is rampant.
Bribery is a way of life....Cops..officials..etc.

The police are underpaid and looking for more...
The central government pays them a little so that they will get off their backsides and patrol the place.
They are scared of the infiltration of Chechnens.....big problem.
They still look at black skinned people as strange.

The OVR or internal passport office is a dirty, cramped hovel in most towns
Travelling alone is dangerous for the inexperienced and not that much safer for me.
Air travel is a maybe....planes are held together with very little maintenance.

Elevators all smell the same...damp, mouldy, like garbage cans in the warm sun.
There are beggars on most main streets in pitiful condition...these are not fair weather beggars,
......during a snow storm in November, I saw 3 on the street while walking back home.

The people are divided by massive class structure...very rich, and just making it.
The place is depressing for the most part.
The people are it's redeeming feature...most are very hospitable and when they know you they will give you everything they own.

The country suffered enormous monetary collapse in the 90's and most people are afraid of banks and work on a cash basis.
Average income for a teacher is $70.00 a month....generally speaking the monthly wage is around $100.00 or less.
State pension is $35.00 a month.

A family apartment rent is $30.00 up to $300 in Moscow/St. Petersburg.
Moscow to Suchi train fare is $35.00 Third class or $200.00 First class return....( 1st is two bunk compartment).
Food is a little cheaper than the USA.
Telephone is $6.00 to $9.00 and you prepay for computer hook ups.
Nearly everyone buys fresh food/milk every day and cooks in the evening....very little canned goods.

The big stores are filled with everything you could want, but not much cheaper than USA.
Gasoline was $1.50 or so last May with the Ruble at 30 to the dollar..

Few people have cars...most ride the bus, ( across town is 15 to 25 cents, one way.)..
A new LADA...like a Fiat 126, are about $2500.00 new.
A 2 bed house outside Volgagrad is $2000.00.

Education/University is free for Russians and most people have degrees in many disciplines, ecology, chemistry, engineering etc.
Medical attention is frightening...although most people survive.
Dentistry is antiquated and not cheap but improving a lot.
A set of dentures is about $1000.00 or better.

You can check about Russia on many sites...but there is no substitute for being there.
I was not allowed to go to some places as there is still a restriction on foreigners travelling to some places.
I wanted to go to the Cosmodrome but was refused travel to Kazakhstan.

The last famous astronaut is paid $200.00 a month pension.
Every business has to prepay the coming years taxes on sales.
Even new start ups.

Would not have missed my trips there for the world...real exciting to say the least.
If you ever have the chance to go... go....The Bolshoi Theater was fantastic.
Red Square is massive.....Lenin is still there.!
Just be sure you have a friend(s) who is Russian.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2005, 12:07 AM
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From what I have read from someone who drove around a large chunk of Russia in 02 or 03 it a broke country. Basicly a country with a 3rd world economy but filled with people with a 1st world attitude if that makes sense. The Mafia runs everything and is making more money then they know what to do with. The further away from Moscow you get the weaker the govs authority and stronger the Mafia's is. But hey they are not all bad guys they love MB's.

Illegal weapons sales are probably rampent, and frankly I am amazed a nuclar warhead hasn't been sold to some terrorist organization yet.

They are building advanced weapons for China.

But opertunity does exist in Russia, their is money to be made in oil, and probably manufacturing. Cheap labor with some knowledge.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-2005, 03:38 AM
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I'd assume that there is a lot of commercial funding behind the International Space Station. That's probably why they are able to continue it.
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2005, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
SDI missle might have a problem. SDI laser would give a flip how fast and maneuverable the target is. At a 186,000 Miles per second you don't lead, you just hold it on target and make a teenie hole. Doesn't take a big hole. Ask the space shuttle astronauts. The SDI missle thing is good for N. Korea-type slow suborbital un-MIRV'd single warheads. You develop systems to meet the threat.
I'll agree on that one. A laser would be much more do-able than the damned inertial kill vehicles they've been squandering money on so far. Can you imagine the fine tuning that would be required on thrust and various navigational methods to reliably strike something going that fast, and now apparently capable of changing course?

The lift-off phase is the most practical time to strike -- there's a heat trail -- but we'd need to have the things based all over the world and that would be a tough one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy
Illegal weapons sales are probably rampent, and frankly I am amazed a nuclar warhead hasn't been sold to some terrorist organization yet.
Oh man, ain't that the truth. Can you imagine some army colonel who hasn't been paid in a few months, say a guy who always hated the U.S. (their evil empire) having a few million or more waved in front of his nose to look the other way while a warhead was offloaded?! We know OBL and gang can come up with $$. It's a bit of a nail-biter.

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Last edited by cmac2012; 06-18-2005 at 07:26 PM.
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