Cannibalism revisited - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #31 11-07-2005, 10:04 PM

Okay. I choked one (a deer) to death. That's why I say thumbs are important. Now REAL men, they don't use thumbs.

Bot

Kuan · #32 11-07-2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzsmbs

nah, this is being on top of the food chain

At 201 lbs the guy outweighs most Whitetail bucks!

boneheaddoctor · #33 11-07-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Okay. I choked one (a deer) to death. That's why I say thumbs are important. Now REAL men, they don't use thumbs.

Bot

Friend of mines father scared one to death once....it walked by when he was decending a treestand. Tried to get his gun off shoulder, spooked it , it wheeled around and bolted straight into a tree, broke its neck....10 pointer....biggest buck he ever got....son told me that story....the old man trys to keep it low key to maintain his great white hunter rep.

Botnst · #34 11-07-2005, 10:16 PM

Found out that choking a deer ain't kosher.

Bot

Teemeister · #35 11-07-2005, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

In reading a student paper on animal rights/suffering today, a new thought crossed my mind. Much of the literature on this subject decries anthropcentrism and the tendency to value humans above other species, especially when attempting to reduce suffering and pain in the world. Given the fact that other animals experience pain and suffering, a number of people argue that the only morally acceptable way to eat meat is to let animals life 'natural' lives and refrain from causing suffering when they are killed (or die natural deaths).
It occured to me today, that people who hold to this position should also believe that cannibalism is ok as long as the humans eaten live natural lives and no suffering is involved in their deaths. In other words, if humans and other animals are equals because we all suffer, what grounds would there be for prohibiting cannibalism? It's a kind of reductio ad absurdum argument because I don't think animal rights advocates would accept cannibalism.
The only way out seems to be vegetarianism, but then that raises the problem of the value of plants.
What the issue really seems to point to, is the very basis of ethics itself. Ethics isn't based in reason and logic, but in basic feelings. We have a basic feeling that causes a preference for our own species. This accounts for why we typically are not repulsed by meat eaters, but are repulsed by cannibals. We also have feelings for other animals and dislike it when other animals suffer, but that fact does not trump our basic orientation towards our own species.
Opinions?

That was quite interesting to read. What I liked in particular was the part addressing the meaning of ethics which I agree to on the whole. However, as soon as we compare humans to animals (and here I refer to the biological definition of the term "animal") we must be careful. If we talk about animals in general I assume the point on cannibalism would be missing in the animal rights codex, because some animals would accept it and others would definitely not. A side note to complicate the situation: The fact that other animals experience pain and suffering is, in most cases, a false fact.

kerry · #36 11-07-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teemeister

That was quite interesting to read. What I liked in particular was the part addressing the meaning of ethics which I agree to on the whole. However, as soon as we compare humans to animals (and here I refer to the biological definition of the term "animal") we must be careful. If we talk about animals in general I assume the point on cannibalism would be missing in the animal rights codex, because some animals would accept it and others would definitely not. A side note to complicate the situation: The fact that other animals experience pain and suffering is, in most cases, a false fact.

Where do zoologists draw the line on experiencing pain and suffering? Central nervous system? But there are humans with central nervous systems that don't experience pain. To what extent does self-consciousness add to the experience of pain?

Are there animals that routinely practice cannibalism? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm thinking it's possible.

Azimyth · #37 11-08-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Where do zoologists draw the line on experiencing pain and suffering? Central nervous system? But there are humans with central nervous systems that don't experience pain. To what extent does self-consciousness add to the experience of pain?

Are there animals that routinely practice cannibalism? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm thinking it's possible.

http://ladywildlife.com/animal/cannibalisminanimals.html

This short report is copyrighted so I can only link it. It explains in general terms animal cannibalism and infanticide

Teemeister · #38 11-08-2005, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Where do zoologists draw the line on experiencing pain and suffering? Central nervous system? But there are humans with central nervous systems that don't experience pain. To what extent does self-consciousness add to the experience of pain?

Are there animals that routinely practice cannibalism? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm thinking it's possible.

It's been quite a while since I took classes in general biology and zoology, nevertheless I'll try to answer some of your questions by giving examples.

It is known that elephants mourn their dead brethren. They are very social animals and in addition to physical pain they also feel emotional pain - they do suffer. I'd say a CNS (or a similar nervous system with highly developed, dedicated neurons) is essential to feel physical pain. However, insects do not feel physical pain, even though they have a complex nervous system.

Some humans don't experience (physical) pain indeed, but that is because of a rare disease I can not recall right now.

Cannibalism is very common among Araneae (spiders) where the female literally has great appetite for the male after the sexual intercourse. I admit this is the ony example that comes to my mind instantly, but one thing I know is that in the "wild" sources for food are usually limited and cannibalism is one solution to this problem. In extreme situations cannibalism could be the key to survival.

"To what extent does self-consciousness add to the experience of pain?" Now, that's philosophical

In my opinion, given you have enough of it, it can worsen but also relief the pain - it depends.

Jim Anderson · #39 11-08-2005, 12:45 AM

Is it canabalism if you eat a vegatarian

boneheaddoctor · #40 11-08-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Found out that choking a deer ain't kosher.

Bot

I guess that depends on what you choke it with...........

J. R. B. · #41 11-08-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Anderson

Is it canabalism if you eat a vegatarian

Most vegetarians I've encountered are too thin and sickly. You have to have fat marbleing for tender cuts. Maybe if you corn fed them for a few months you would have that delicate flavor and juicyness we all crave.