questions about 95 grand marquis - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RG5384 · #1 11-11-2005, 08:14 PM

Its the roommates car, he recently got it after his pristine t-bird was totalled. Interior of the car is mint, the car only has 25k miles on it. Aside fromt he typical ball joint and tie rods needing to be replaced, the entire underside of the car is rusted. The actual body frame is rust free, but the driveshaft, rear axle, brake assemblys, brake lines and chassis itself are all covered with rust. The car was bought after an old lady died and it had sat for 2 years at a beach condo in boca raton. I theorized that the car has saltwater flooding damage from the hurricanes, but i dont know that for a fact. He's trying to figure out if he should pawn the car off on a dealer of if the rust is just surface rust that any northern car of that age would have. I've never seen rust this bad on all the working parts of a car before though, the underside of my 83 benz had no rust...What would you do in this situation?
thanks

CSchmidt · #2 11-11-2005, 08:21 PM

RG,

If it was nearby the ocean, there is a bunch of salt in the air and humidity. I used to live in Wilmington NC and you would see cars with bumpers and fenders rusted through just like up North. It may all be surface rust... or it could eat through fenders and floors. Can you check inside fenders, wheel wells?

Your (his) decision on whether to keep it. It probably wasn't worth much to begin with. You may get more for it now - cosmetically looking good - than if rust starts showing through in other places.

Chuck

RG5384 · #3 11-12-2005, 02:42 AM

The body pannels are all in great shape, as i said the car only has 25k on it. The main concern is the structural integrity of the car. The springs are rusted at the bottom, as is the entire driveshaft/swaybar etc.
thanks,
"Ryan

Jim H · #4 11-12-2005, 09:22 AM

We have a '94 Grand Marquis, been here in Michigan all of its life, salt & all. It has 212,000 miles. Our daughter is thrilled with it because she has 'her' car to drive to school and does not have to ride the 'loser-cruiser.'

It is probably rusty underneath too, but our mechanic has never said it should be condemned.

Do, of course, check it for structural soundness.

Then, I'd suggest you give it a good underbody wash to knock off any salt and go have fun with it.

Salt itself is not the problem, but it attract water from out of the air, which results in the metal staying 'wet' even after it looks dry, and that water right up against the metal is what causes rust.

RG5384 · #5 11-12-2005, 11:31 PM

well i replaced the rear rotors and pads on it today. It actually went quite smoothly except for both heat sheilds being totally rusted, and the bleed valves of the calipers being rusted shut(so i had to use a c-clamp to compress the piston and not bleed the brakes after). There was rust that i could peel away with my finger on the inside of the caliper, does that seem like normal older car rust? My roommate and I both hypothosize that the car has sat in saltwater from hurricane francis, since it was parked at a beach condo for two years and that hurricane hit the boca area. I didn't find it normal at all that the bleed screws were rusted solid. In addition, i had to go a size down on a few of the bolts because when i put the proper size ratchet on them the rust just stripped away. All i have to say after that project is thank the Lord for PB blaster.
Ryan

Hatterasguy · #6 11-13-2005, 08:57 PM

I'd dump it, sounds like a massive pita.

RG5384 · #7 11-14-2005, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I'd dump it, sounds like a massive pita.

Thats the plan at this point. It also has weird electrical issues, and forget the emergency brake, the spring on the cable is rusted and the spring has popped out. Brake lines also have surface rust. The more i think about it the more positive i am this was a flooded car that no one reported because the owner wasn't alive to report it..... My advice to him was to take it to a local small lot car dealer and trade it in on something. He'll get wholesaled and retailed but at least this one will be gone.
Ryan

Nate · #8 11-14-2005, 06:42 PM

I'll pay to ship it up here... Free running car desposial

Seriously, It does sound like a pain in the ass, and is most likely flooded... BUT the interior should show damage...

Can you get a few pics of the cars body, undercarrage, and interior?

~Nate

#9 11-14-2005, 07:18 PM

I'd also recommend dumping the car. Although, before you do, I know of someone who would probably like those door panels, and the power window regulators, and locks. They would go along way to fixing the remaining problems in his 97 Crown Vic P71.

Speaking of the Police Interceptors, if your friend wants one of these big ol' Fords, they are cheap and plentiful on Ebay. My Dad bought the mentioned 97 last year from the state of Colorado through Ebay, and he's been absolutely thrilled with it. Enought so, that I just laid out the cash on a 98 for myself. I go pick it up in a couple of days. Dad picked it up from the place a few days ago, and has been extremely jealous ever since. It seems that mine is in better shape than his.

I paid $3950 for mine, and it is a detectives car, and didn't get the patrol and revenue generating abuse.

RG5384 · #10 11-15-2005, 02:34 AM

there is no flood damage to the inside of the car at all. the interior is MINT aside from a slight headliner issue at the very back that is barely noticable. Seats dont seem like they have ever been sat in, carpet looks brand new. I looked for sand very breifly and didn't find any. The interior basically looks brand spankin new. He let me drive the car the other day, and man is it ever smooth too. Rides incredibly nice, and the chassis kinda tweaks just a lil bit when you get on the gas. Brakes seem a little touchy and it handles like a box of rocks, tho. Its a shame the underside is going to turn into a rusted compilation of parts soon.
Ryan

Nate Stanley · #11 11-15-2005, 11:57 AM

Get ready for possible:

Intake manifold failure (it splits behind alternator because they mount a bracket on the coolant crossover)

Heater core failure (8 hrs to R & R)

O2 sensor failure

reduced tranny fluid change intervals (factory says 60K, reality-- 30K)

See my signature, no need to ask me how I know:

Nate · #12 11-15-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w126

If the car sat on a concrete slab (inside or out) serious rust can develop. The concrete sweats with temp and humidity changes.

I've seen older cars that have rarely seen the elements, but sat for years on end (or storage) on concrete and developed horrendous underside rust.

CRAP, sorry for the hijack, but what can be done to concrete to make it not swet??? My car sits on concrete...

ARG
~Nate

redassag00 · #13 11-15-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG5384

Its the roommates car, he recently got it after his pristine t-bird was totalled. Interior of the car is mint, the car only has 25k miles on it. Aside fromt he typical ball joint and tie rods needing to be replaced, the entire underside of the car is rusted. The actual body frame is rust free, but the driveshaft, rear axle, brake assemblys, brake lines and chassis itself are all covered with rust. The car was bought after an old lady died and it had sat for 2 years at a beach condo in boca raton. I theorized that the car has saltwater flooding damage from the hurricanes, but i dont know that for a fact. He's trying to figure out if he should pawn the car off on a dealer of if the rust is just surface rust that any northern car of that age would have. I've never seen rust this bad on all the working parts of a car before though, the underside of my 83 benz had no rust...What would you do in this situation?
thanks

Hi there, I'm a n00b here, but I am VERY familiar with Ford's Panther Platform, so if I may chime in.....

I have been working on Crown Vics etc for quite a while now, and running a business working on them, and refurbishing police units for resale, and a few speed parts for the Marauder. We turn over around 15 units a month and they are resold to Law Enforcement municipalities that cannot afford a new cruiser.

As far as the car, 25K is very little for that year model. The driveshaft, if its not a HPP (Handling and Performance Pkg) car which you can tell buy the dual exhaust and 16" Lacy Spoke Wheels, will be steel, and surface rust is normal on it. HPP and Police Models will come with Aluminum shafts. My F150 has had a rusty shaft since it was 4 months old and has 225K and I have never had issues with it. This car is indeed body on frame so it is pretty stout.

you actually will NOT have to worry about the intake, on the 95, since the plastic intake failures only ocurred on cars after 1996. The rear part of the headliner sagging is usual as well.

96-00 Cars had issues with the O2 sensors but most of those were caused by excessively dirty Mass Air flow sensors and very sensitive PCMs, easily corrected with a in-line kit available to fix that. 95 Cars were a hybrid OBD-II but not fully compliant.

The 4R70W/AOD-E Transmission is a very stout and healthy transmisison, the only issue is the car wants to be in overdrive at like 34mph, causing the car to lug, simple, just push the OD off button at below 40, or you can easily find a CVPI PCM and replace it for more aggressive engine programming and no limiter.

As far as the heater cores going out, that can be prevented by regular coolant changes. I have seen one car that went out from us with 66K and currently has 320K on it with routine coolant swaps and has not needed a heater core yet.

As far as trading it for something like a police interceptor, I would not. First off, you know this car was a babied or got the death beat out of it. CVPIs are a mixed bag. I purchased most of mine (around 120+ pear year) from Texas Dept of Public safety, which assigns most of their cars to a single person, so that person is responsible for caring for it. And most of the time, when you preview the car, by looking at the condition its in, you can already tell how it was driven/cared for.

In the end, you guys will decided to keep/dump but if you need more info, send me a PM about it I can provide you more information than you'll ever want to know!!!

Nate Stanley · #14 11-15-2005, 07:59 PM

RED,
nice to see you've had better experiences with the heater core, but if you look over on crownvic.net and do a search of the 4.6l forums, you'll find a number of people who have had this trouble.

For me, it's the second core in 2 years, and the coolant was changed twice in that interval. So it's not poor maintenance that caused it.

One guy on crownvic.net even went thru 5 in short order.

Ford has a TSB out explaining the possibility of galvanic corrosion, and grounding the core if there is a voltage potential of > .4 volts between the coolant and ground. Pretty wierd stuff for any make of car.

Uriah · #15 11-15-2005, 09:17 PM

I traded off my 92 Crown Vic last year for a 92 Mercedes 190E 2.3. It was about the most problem free car I've had. Being mine was a 92, it still had the AOD that got rebuilt about 120K, and I used a slightly looser converter and upgraded some tranny parts (shift kit, ect...). I sold the car with 215K on it, and the trans still shifted great, the heater core (origional) never had any leaks, and the basic fit and finish was fine. It looked like a car half it's age with way less miles then it had.

I do ALOT of mountain driving, so I changed rear pads and rotors more often then I think I should have (45-50K), tires once a year, common wear stuff, shocks (but lifetime, so no biggie), oil and fluids.

Here's the kicker, I do a 230 mile a day commute, and the old Vic averaged over 28 mpg. That's only slightly less then my 190E 2.3 automatic gets. Strickly city driver (misnoamer as I don't live in town, more country/moutain mix) was still around 23 mpg.

I don't get the entire PI (Police) thing with the 4.6s. Best I can tell, they have a bigger alt, and dual exhaust with no other difference. Same compression, cams, ect... I know I don't like the old police cars as even the low mileage ones you get around here still ran 24/7 for the most part. They should all have hour meters.

BTW, I had the air suspension on the back of mine, and pulled a 16' tandem trailer around with it pretty often, with my racecar (73 Maverick) on it with no problems.

Anyway, I had the car for about 6 years and put about 130K on it. Excellent service for 6K to start with. It made more then a few trips to Utah and Maryland, not to mention TN everyday.

If I had half a brain, I'd look for another good one...