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  #1  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:17 AM
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Should the U.S. condone torture

Torture is the tool of the slothful. The main attraction to those who defend the use of torture is how easily and quickly a suspect can be broken. Unlike other forms of interrogation, torture requires only a small amount of training, no particular understanding of the suspect, and scant concern for the veracity of what is revealed. It requires only the willingness to do to another human being what one would not do to an animal. Understanding torture as the lazy personís tool makes it a bit more comprehensible why the Bush Administration would be the first in American history to defend the practice.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:23 AM
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define torture with specificity please.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie7
Understanding torture as the lazy personís tool makes it a bit more comprehensible why the Bush Administration would be the first in American history to defend the practice.
Looks like you answered your own question already.

Anyway, regarding the text quoted above, don't you mean to say "the first presidency to admit that different interrogations techniques might be considered?" Sure you're not so naive as to think that it didn't happen under those "other" administrations. So it's bad to fess up to it, in a manner?
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:30 AM
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define torture with specificity please, that's kind of like saying "it depends on what the definition of is is". Does that sound familiar?
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie7
define torture with specificity please, that's kind of like saying "it depends on what the definition of is is". Does that sound familiar?
It's a relevant question...

There was all the hubub raised by the illustrious Dick Durbin about the techniques used at Gitmo. Apparently sleep deprivation, cranked up A/C or heat, and loud rock music are "Gulag-like" forms of torture in his mind.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie7
Torture is the tool of the slothful. The main attraction to those who defend the use of torture is how easily and quickly a suspect can be broken. Unlike other forms of interrogation, torture requires only a small amount of training, no particular understanding of the suspect, and scant concern for the veracity of what is revealed. It requires only the willingness to do to another human being what one would not do to an animal. Understanding torture as the lazy personís tool makes it a bit more comprehensible why the Bush Administration would be the first in American history to defend the practice.
You seem to be familiar with this. What is your training/background? Have you ever participated in torturing someone?
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by el presidente
You seem to be familiar with this. What is your training/background? Have you ever participated in torturing someone?
Yeah, Mercedesshop OD readers. I find the post degrading so I am being tortured.

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Old 12-09-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cscmc1
It's a relevant question...

There was all the hubub raised by the illustrious Dick Durbin about the techniques used at Gitmo. Apparently sleep deprivation, cranked up A/C or heat, and loud rock music are "Gulag-like" forms of torture in his mind.
Well, I tell you what, if someone chained me to the floor by my neck with a 2 foot piece of chain, in my skivvies, with air conditioner full blast, and some mind numbing crap like AC/DC blasting at near ear damaging decibel levels for 12 hours, and I knew I didn't have squat to tell them, I'd be laying out plans to kill the mo-fo....slowly.

The red cross claims the vast majority of the guys at GitMo were just the ones who were too slow to get away. The people with actual knowledge probably evacuated first, with a rear guard covering their escape. I can't imagine that anything that these guys know is still current, such as locations of facilities, etc. They're so low budget, they can relocate quickly.

We're staining ourselves morally for no good purpose.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Yeah, Mercedesshop OD readers. I find the post degrading so I am being tortured.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yeah, Mercedesshop OD readers. I find the post degrading so I am being tortured.
I quit reading books and watching CSPAN when I discovered OD
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2005, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
Well, I tell you what, if someone chained me to the floor by my neck with a 2 foot piece of chain, in my skivvies, with air conditioner full blast, and some mind numbing crap like AC/DC blasting at near ear damaging decibel levels for 12 hours, and I knew I didn't have squat to tell them, I'd be laying out plans to kill the mo-fo....slowly.
I see your point, but is it Gulag-like? Comparable to what the SS did? Those boys made lampshades out of human flesh.
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  #12  
Old 12-09-2005, 12:57 PM
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I used to torture my little sister, never did get any worthwile information out of her
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2005, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cscmc1
I see your point, but is it Gulag-like? Comparable to what the SS did?
Good place to start for gulag info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

A great personal account is "Gulag Archipelago" by Alexandr Sohlzenytsin. I read that back in the 1970's and I had a Senator Cato moment. It convinced me that the USSR was the enemy of liberty and must be destroyed by any means necessary.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:57 PM
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BTW, the Gitmo detainees are also given unprecedented access to the tools, time, and even diet eneeded to practice their religion. We don't much hear about the "good."
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  #15  
Old 12-09-2005, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cscmc1
BTW, the Gitmo detainees are also given unprecedented access to the tools, time, and even diet eneeded to practice their religion. We don't much hear about the "good."
To me, using terms like "Gulag" and "Nazi" and "killing fields" diminishes the horror of those particular industrial destruction of humanity and over-dramatizes the potential immoderate behavior by American jailers.

Truth is the first casualty.

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