Another Middle Eastern leader begging for removal - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #**151** 12-18-2005, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

No, you get a grip, please.

I've said, SEVERAL times, that I'd prefer that the Iranian people do it... but it I'm certainly not going to hold my breath. I'm also not advocating jumping up and doing so right now, or anytime soon... But the guy definitely needs to be watched closely. His intentions are NOT good.

I also think that you underestimate our ability to wage war nowadays. What we did in Iraq was a very "PC" event..... quite tame, compared to what our military is really capable of. We are fully capable of making all of Iran a distant memory, if it ever came to such extremes. Hopefully it will not.

I agree the guy is seriously bad news. I didn't dig his energy, man, from the git-go and then he opened his mouth.

I agree that we could easily slaughter mucho peoples in Iran. Question is, then what? I can't see the surviving Iranians thanking us for that and inviting us in to divvy up their oil reserves. We can't slaughter every last one of them and then send millions of US emigres over to resettle the place. Well, I guess we could but I don't think it would last too long. The rest of the world would likely band together and put a stop to us or make operations in Iran really tough.

My earlier remarks about apologizing and making reparations to Iran would surely be greeted with howls of laughter, derision, etc. were I to trot them out anywhere near the halls of power. This sort of thinking is anathema to people who believe in wielding power. I think though, it would throw the Iranians off balance were we to show some humility and contrition.

Here's my fantasy speech (from US pres.): People of Iran: years ago, our country abused some of your rights and freedoms. Many thought it prudent at the time but we now realize it was a terrible mistake. We realize that many in your country have uncharitable feelings for our country as a result. We have differences still, and it is my hope that we can make progress on these issues. As a matter of principle, my country is prepared to offer financial reparations in hopes of making amends for our past misdeeds. Please do not mistake this as a sign of fear or weakness. The dominant religion in our country instructs us to admit to our errors and make repentance. In doing this, our hope is that we can come to understand each other better, and bury hard feelings of the past.

Your country has much to offer the world and we would like to engage in mutually beneficial trade with you. The nation of Israel has much to offer your region as well, with their scientific knowledge and manufacturing know-how. Let us share our strengths with each other and put our useless bickering aside. The strength, the very survival, of our descendents, depends on it.

Good night and Allah Akbar. (the last part's a joke

)

Yeah, I'm a dreamin' fooo. This would be a bit like diplomacy ju-jitsu: taking the enemy's power away and using it against him. But we'd have to be sincere about it. They expect us to be cheats. We could blow their minds, and it would cost us way less than invading them.

dacia · #**152** 12-18-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

It is curious to me that any discussion of why it is that Jews seem to have found trouble at most of their stops on the diaspora trail is frequently shouted down with 'bigot' or 'nazi' scattered about liberally.
In no way do I begin to condone the savage treatment Jews received at the hands of various Europeans over the years. Nonetheless, one wonders if the "chosen people" self image has a way of alienating people who might have otherwise been compliant neighbors.

Based on some of the quotes that I mentioned in that other thread from jewish authors some would perhaps make the argument that the holocaust was a rather useful thing to have happened to the jews, not to those who died but for the future generations.
Inflammatory statement? Sure if it is coming from me, because I am not one of the chosen ones, my relatives didn’t die in a concentration camp, no Botnst they did die fighting the Communists, the most evil social order ever know to man, the very system your people unleashed upon my country (during the darkest years of communism where my people were sent to intern camps the president, the interior minister, the defence secraterary and their hanchmen were all jewish, installed by the Russians). So who in his right mind would dare to make such statement right, after all it is the special people we are talking about here and surely they are all beyond criticism by us mere gentiles? Well who else than another jewish professor. Darn Bontst, these jews just can't shot up for a second can they? You had a good thing going, you had all the world on your side with your constant reminding of us in the media of your eternal suffering, your innocent victimizations by those racist gentiles everywhere you went in your illustrious history, no matter what country, what nation your people tried to assimilate in they were not welcomed by those evil anti-semites, you had us going Bontst, darn you did and then bang along comes some loose lipped, self hating jew and blows it for you.

First it was Benjamin Ginsberg and his ramblings about the Fatal embrace,

Quote:

"As a people who historically distanced themselves from the indigenous peoples of every land they lived and as centuries-old nemeses of the Christian order, Jews were ideally suited to function as dispassionate legislators -- and exploiters and oppressors -- over those of whom they had no bond or interest."

Then comes Morawska:

Quote:

"The Gentile population in general," says Ewa Morawska about Eastern Europe, "and the inhabitants of villages surrounding the [Jewish community] in particular, were seen by Jews primarily in instrumental terms as suppliers of ... material livelihood." [MORAWSKA, p. 15] For those many Jews who had a religious basis in their lives, traditional Judaism often served the interests of devaluing others. As consequence, Jewish communities periodically engendered the wrath -- and sometimes violence -- of the common populace."

Not over yet: Tomer Kleiman:

Quote:

"The establishment of the State of Israel would have been possible without the Holocaust due to the Zionist movement, however the reparations from the Holocaust given by West Germany gave Israel the resources necessary to survive. In this paper I will argue that the Holocaust played an important role in the founding and long term visibility of the State of Israel in three respects: The Holocaust motivated large numbers of immigrants to move to the new country, providing the necessary population; secondly, the Holocaust enabled Israel to pressure Germany into supplying the economic base necessary to build infrastructure and support those immigrants; and finally, the Holocaust swayed world opinion so that the United Nations approved the State of Israel in 1948."

And now Professor Norman Finkelstein:

Quote:

"Jewish American historian Norman Finkelstein argues in his explosive new book, "The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering" that Holocaust remembrance has been exploited by the Jewish establishment.
In his book he contends that a greater threat to the memory of the Holocaust than Holocaust deniers is what he calls 'The Holocaust Industry'.
He accuses those who exploit the Holocaust of telling lies and of naked greed. He argues that the ruthless industrialization of the Holocaust has encouraged the rebirth of anti-semitism in Europe and the United States.
The son of survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and concentration camps, he says, "I do care about the memory of my family's persecution. The current campaign of the Holocaust industry to extort money from Europe in the name of "needy Holocaust victims" has shrunk the moral stature of their martyrdom to that of a Monte Carlo casino."

Keep it coming:

Quote:

“Finkelstein argues that for the Holocaust Industry two theses are critical. First, the holocaust is a unique event. Second, it is a climax of an irrational gentile hatred of Jews. The author shows that the facts are contrary to the claims of the Holocaust Industry. The Nazi holocaust is not a uniquely Jewish event. It is well known that Roma (gypsies), communists, Russians, Poles, gays, disabled, and others were also victims of the Nazi and were slaughtered mercilessly. It is disgraceful to try to "monopolize" the Nazi holocaust. The claim of uniqueness is a form of denial because it is based on the dismissal or the trivialization of the suffering of others.
Finkelstein exposes Elie Wiesel, the leading spokesperson of the Holocaust Industry. Israeli politician Abba Eban once quipped, "There's no business like Shoah business." If there was ever a master of the Shoah business, then Elie Wiesel is its grand master-he charges a "standard fee of $25,000 (plus chauffeured limousine)" for purporting to reveal the "secret" of Auschwitz.”

But wait there is more, other jews actually agree with them, how is that possible:

Quote:

"Raul Hilberg, one of the most famous and distinguished Holocaust historians, whose multi-volume The Destruction of the European Jews is widely regarded as the first seminal study on the Jewish Holocaust, has praised Finkelstein's book.
When I read Finkelstein's book, The Holocaust Industry, at the time of its appearance, I was in the middle of my own investigations of these matters, and I came to the conclusion that he was on the right track. I refer now to the part of the book that deals with the claims against the Swiss banks, and the other claims pertaining to forced labor. I would now say in retrospect that he was actually conservative, moderate and that his conclusions are trustworthy. He is a well-trained political scientist, has the ability to do the research, did it carefully, and has come up with the right results. I am by no means the only one who, in the coming months or years, will totally agree with Finkelstein's breakthrough."

And now here is what I said in that previous thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

It is getting really tiresome to hear the holocaust industry cry and whine day in day out for the last 50 some years. It is all about money nothing else. Germany has paid over 50 billion (yes that is billion with a "b" ) deutsch mark in the last 50 years as war reparation. Enough already. Get over it, life goes on.
.
.
.
What is a mere 6 million (if so?) when we can easily estimate tens of millions murdered worldwide in the name of Marxism/Leninism/bolshevism/communism. Do we hear a siren song for those? No, all we hear is the ringing of the cash machines. Enough already. Get on with your lives. You have no moral high ground here when throughout history whatever nation you tried to assimilate in repulsed you. The egyptians, the romans, the spaniards, the poles, the russians etc. Every single nation whose land you tried to stay on revolted against you. I wonder why that is. There has never been a tribe hated throughout history so universally so uniformly as the jews. Maybe you should take a long, hard look in the mirror before you start blaming every other nation on this earth.

Damn, I am good.

These statements are not coming from neo-nazis (the bogie word of the Western world), bigots, revisionists, anti -semites or other “misguided souls“, oh no sirry bob, these are prominent members of society, learned individuals, Phds, teachers etc. of your own tribe.
I always wondered why you didn’t join the fray at that other thread and then I realized that it is because of the weasel personality you have, that I have pointed out previously, where you actually don’t have the balls to fight you just sit on the sidelines and enjoy others battle it out for you. Some would say it is the evolutionary trait of your kind to let others do the battles for you, divide et impera Botnst, you didn’t invent it but surely mastered it. Of course you always find the useful fools for your cause , either it is the K. Vinings (although he might be one of you judging by his last name) cloaked in the dubious honor of intellectual liberalism or the plain and simple Boneheads, who is so far off his rocker most people around here can’t even follow his argument if he has any, but that is ok as long as he is battling for you.
Of course I don’t expect you to agree with these facts for you have the uncanny ability to turn any argument around no matter how illogical it becomes, just like KVining did when I brought his sliminess into focus and his defense was that a lot of things were said in the past it doesn‘t matter now. Well they do, to those who are paying for your ride through never ending war reparations.
I don’t hate you or your kind, I don’t know you and I don’t care about you. I hate what you stand for your lies, your faux liberalism, your “I am a victim give me money” demands, you moral midget hypocrite.

Alex

Botnst · #**153** 12-18-2005, 04:02 PM

I'll just bet if I were so inclined taht I could find a few black scholars that would say that slavery was good for blacks. Look, if you seek to prove a thesis by ignoring opposing arguments, you will find a way to prove it. You have done so to your satisfaction. I find it intellectually dishonest, but you are comfortable with it so it's yours to love and cherish.

Now, how many authors with opposing views have you read? None?

I'll just bet that most Jews would rather that 6 million of their own relatives had not been exterminated by European bigots. Would you care for me to seek authors to support that opinion or are you capable of doing that yourself?

By your choice of argument, you prove your prejudice. By your words, you demonstrate your bigotry.

Bot

A264172 · #**154** 12-18-2005, 04:14 PM

Alex,
You seem to have identified a aincient conspiracy on a vast scale. An evil force that seeks to exploit you and your people like cattle to their own ends. Do you aquiesce and go to your grave, or do you have a remedy?

dacia · #**155** 12-18-2005, 06:21 PM

I posted an opinion for which I was vilified, called names, for no reason other than the opinion not being part of the mainstream, the universally accepted and propagated “truth”. This forced me to prove that my views are valid and did so by using jewish works as not to be dismissed by the mindless crowd as a nazi or jew-hater. I didn’t ignore opposing arguments, my job was to prove my point against them which I did.
It is not me who desecrates the memories of those who died in the last century by asking questions about the honesty of those who are heading the fund raising campaigns, it is your kind who uses them as a mean to enrich your own pockets. Therein lies the real shame, for the money is never enough for your people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

By your choice of argument, you prove your prejudice.

I am not suppose to argue subjects that you find sensitive or deem to be off limits? Don’t you find that intellectually corrupt? I certainly do. Every single contention I made was backed from Jewish works. So by your argument they must be prejudiced too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

By your words, you demonstrate your bigotry.

What I have demonstrated is that I didn’t fall for communist propaganda in the past and I certainly will not fall for yours now, both of which, incidentally, comes from the same origin, jewish.
You may fool the americans, by and large the most gullible people on the world, you will easily find your KVinings, Webwenhces, Germanstars, Boneheads who are so laden with white liberal quilt that they simply refuse to consider that there may actually exists a different version of the events and will happily do the bidding for you, we on the other side of the pond do look at the world with a bit more cynicism.
You may not agree with what I have said but it doesn’t give you the right to call me a nazi or a bigot and don‘t be surprised when I return the favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a264172

Alex,
You seem to have identified a aincient conspiracy on a vast scale. An evil force that seeks to exploit you and your people like cattle to their own ends. Do you aquiesce and go to your grave, or do you have a remedy?

Please don't insult my intellect with comments like that.

Alex

#**156** 12-18-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

You may fool the americans, by and large the most gullible people on the world, you will easily find your KVinings, Webwenhces, Germanstars, Boneheads who are so laden with white liberal quilt...

Alex

Bonehead is liberal? Good lord! You must be pretty far to the right to consider that guy left...

I mean really - are you an anarchichal capitalist?

Peter

edit: Are you saying Jews are communists? If not, what was the point of connecting the two situations? And btw - I don't think the Holocaust is ONLY recognized by the Jews. Many others admit that it happened to the same scale using their own evidence, completely separate from the Jews.

Botnst · #**157** 12-18-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

I posted an opinion for which I was vilified, called names, for no reason other than the opinion not being part of the mainstream, the universally accepted and propagated “truth”. This forced me to prove that my views are valid and did so by using jewish works as not to be dismissed by the mindless crowd as a nazi or jew-hater. I didn’t ignore opposing arguments, my job was to prove my point against them which I did.
It is not me who desecrates the memories of those who died in the last century by asking questions about the honesty of those who are heading the fund raising campaigns, it is your kind who uses them as a mean to enrich your own pockets. Therein lies the real shame, for the money is never enough for your people.

I am not suppose to argue subjects that you find sensitive or deem to be off limits? Don’t you find that intellectually corrupt? I certainly do. Every single contention I made was backed from Jewish works. So by your argument they must be prejudiced too.

What I have demonstrated is that I didn’t fall for communist propaganda in the past and I certainly will not fall for yours now, both of which, incidentally, comes from the same origin, jewish.
You may fool the americans, by and large the most gullible people on the world, you will easily find your KVinings, Webwenhces, Germanstars, Boneheads who are so laden with white liberal quilt that they simply refuse to consider that there may actually exists a different version of the events and will happily do the bidding for you, we on the other side of the pond do look at the world with a bit more cynicism.
You may not agree with what I have said but it doesn’t give you the right to call me a nazi or a bigot and don‘t be surprised when I return the favor.

Please don't insult my intellect with comments like that.

Alex

You posted an opinion for which you were vilified because you opinion is demonstrably prejudiced, through your selection of 'expert opinion' from which you derive your argument. It is one-sided. That is sloppy thinking, at best. Your words betray your bigotry. That combination of obvious characteristics resulted in being correctly and appropriately castigated.

I said by your choice of argument, not your choice of subject. Read carefully for I try for precision and accuracy in what I write.

You argue that since you are a bigot, so must your sources be. That is trivially fallacious.

You may argue any way you choose. When your argument is prejudice I have no problem pointing-out your prejudice. Don't like it? That's your problem, not mine.

If only we naive simpleton Americans were as sophisticated as you are. Then we would embrace the discrimination, pogroms, and industrialized murder that you Europeans find normative.

Bot

cmac2012 · #**158** 12-18-2005, 07:24 PM

Our friend here Alex "Dacia" is a bit more animated on the topic than I. I think there is some validity to his viewpoint though I wish the vitriol could be dissolved somehow with citrus oil cleaner.

The author Norman Finkelstein he quotes is no lightweight. They carry interviews with him on local Pacifica radio outlet KPFA. I would think libertarians would find currency with his views on Jews assuming more responsibility for current realities.

A264172 · #**159** 12-18-2005, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

Please don't insult my intellect with comments like that.

Alex

I don't know what you mean.
Do you mean that it would be too easy for you to answer ans so you will not be bothered?
Or do you mean that you will not be tricked into answering?
Or do you mean that you are afraid to answer and thereby reveal yourself?
Or do you mean something else?

boneheaddoctor · #**160** 12-18-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

Here it is but it is very long, the good stuff starts on page 6 with my post (not trying to be coceited or anything):
Most younger people have never heard of Auschwitz

Well you (US) had and have no business being in Hawaii but that is another thread entirely and you have no idea what a European history class is all about.
Regarding me being German, no Bone I am not, I was born and raised in East Europe under a communist (well socialist really) regime.
But you were darn close.

Alex

OK, thanks for the link...I'll read it again a little later when I have less going on.

So which east European Country was you born and raised in...and which country do you currently reside in if its a different one?

Botnst · #**161** 12-18-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

OK, thanks for the link...I'll read it again a little later when I have less going on.

So which east European Country was you born and raised in...and which country do you currently reside in if its a different one?

Dacia was an ancient pre-Roman state loosely associated with the Greek tribes. It became, after many iterations of conquests and defeat, present-day Rumania. A godawful place under the former dictator. They did a fine job of executing that mofo. Look it up.

Bot

A264172 · #**162** 12-18-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Dacia was an ancient pre-Roman state loosely associated with the Greek tribes. It became, after many iterations of conquests and defeat, present-day Rumania. A godawful place under the former dictator. They did a fine job of executing that mofo. Look it up.

Bot

Also the only place in Europe (Rumania) with its own substantial oil reserves, at least during the second World War.

boneheaddoctor · #**163** 12-18-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Dacia was an ancient pre-Roman state loosely associated with the Greek tribes. It became, after many iterations of conquests and defeat, present-day Rumania. A godawful place under the former dictator. They did a fine job of executing that mofo. Look it up.

Bot

I will....I was pretty good at geography (along with ancient geography) but thats one I have forgotten.

mikemover · #**164** 12-18-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacia

Please don't insult my intellect with comments like that.

Reading this from you, one of the most insulting, condescending members here, it quite ironic, and almost funny.

Mike

dacia · #**165** 12-18-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

You posted an opinion for which you were vilified because you opinion is demonstrably prejudiced, through your selection of 'expert opinion' from which you derive your argument. It is one-sided. That is sloppy thinking, at best. Your words betray your bigotry. That combination of obvious characteristics resulted in being correctly and appropriately castigated.

This is what I was eluding to in my previous post, instead of disproving my quotes from jewish sources you keep arguing my intentions for using them.
Argue the substance not the way it was delivered. You do what your type has been doing every time someone doesn’t agree with you, attack the person not the message. Not once did you say that those authors I quoted are lying, self-hating, dishonest, fabricators for you know they are not. The world has been on to you for a while now, the problem is admitting now would mean that the gravytrain stops.
What are you gonna do when the last one of the survivors are dead Botnst, what will be the modus operandi for extorting money from the gentiles? But I have faith, I am sure you will come up with something creative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

You argue that since you are a bigot, so must your sources be. That is trivially fallacious.

Actually read what I said, if you consider me a bigot you must consider my sources as such ‘cause I said exactly the same thing they did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

You may argue any way you choose. When your argument is prejudice I have no problem pointing-out your prejudice. Don't like it? That's your problem, not mine.

Actually my argument was pointing out the hypocrisy coming from your side in the constant reminding and exploitation of the suffering that your people went through for monetary gain. Proved it from credible sources.

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

If only we naive simpleton Americans were as sophisticated as you are. Then we would embrace the discrimination, pogroms, and industrialized murder that you Europeans find normative.

Perhaps a short trip to a reservation will remind you to the industrial scale extermination of the entire native population of North America. The germans had the best to learn from. How about the enslavement of an entire race, we in the “old world“ stopped that 1000 years ago.
Since we are at this subject, are you about to write checks to repay those natives and blacks for their suffering ‘cause surely you, as the champion of human rights and equality, must agree that their suffering is no less important then your people’s? Shouldn't you be walking hand in hand demanding restitution for the abused but wait, they don’t have a vocal media, famous Hollywood directors or international bankers bankrolling their effort. But so be it because your suffering is eternal theirs only last a lifetime.
How long ago was it when Rosa Park didn’t give up her seat on that bus? Darn, only 50 years ago until which time the blacks were officially second class citizens. So check your record before you scrutinize mine.
Your country have institutionalized racism elevated to an art form.
Your government has the most destructive foreign policy in the world, using and abusing every single country for their own monetary gain, destroying countless lives in the process and you have the fortitude to preach to me about prejudice and bigotry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by botnst

Dacia was an ancient pre-Roman state loosely associated with the Greek tribes. It became, after many iterations of conquests and defeat, present-day Rumania. A godawful place under the former dictator. They did a fine job of executing that mofo. Look it up.

It is also the name of the car I drove when I lived in Austria. It was a Reanult 12 built under license from the French government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a264172

Quote:
Originally Posted by dacia

Please don't insult my intellect with comments like that.

Alex

I don't know what you mean.
Do you mean that it would be too easy for you to answer ans so you will not be bothered?
Or do you mean that you will not be tricked into answering?
Or do you mean that you are afraid to answer and thereby reveal yourself?
Or do you mean something else?

Some of you may perceive this differently to me this is strictly for entertainment, a soapbox where we stare at funny characters and opine about things that bug us one way or the other and in the process hopefully learn something new. On the same token you may be content being spoonfed certain “truths” about contemporary or historical events, I like to examine things from a few different angles and make an educated decision even if I step on a few toes in the process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

Reading this from you, one of the most insulting, condescending members here, it quite ironic, and almost funny.

Well I am glad you didn't miss the entertainment value of it all.
I do not apologize for my opinion, and if you are still reeling of the redneck comment then grow a thicker skin, that is still how you come across, just take a look at the very title of this thread.
Condescending to you opinionated to me, somewhat different meaning.
I rarely start insulting people right from the get go, it does happen sometimes unfortunately but that is not the norm. Usually it is in retaliation to being provoked. Actually if you go back to that exchange with KV you can see my restraint at work. And again in this thread your champion of human rights called me a bigot so I retaliated. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Alex