No, I'm not reeling from anything. Your opinion of me is pretty much at the bottom of my "things to worry about" list.

I'm just trying to express to you that, no matter how passionately you may feel about your position on an issue, there is NEVER a place for insults or name-calling in an intelligent debate. Whether you think you "started it" or not is largely irrelevant. Resorting to such tactics undermines your credibility, and quickly derails the discussion, as evidenced by this thread.

Insults and confrontational outbursts are easy. People who don't know what they are talking about often use such an approach.

An intelligent, calm, well-reasoned discussion is not easy. You've shown that you're capable of it, so.....

You might get taken a little more seriously around here if you'd tone down your presentation and try to be less abrasive. When you just come out swinging, you get what we have now on this thread: Chaos, insults, and a bunch of useless drivel from all sides of the discussion.

Of course if you don't WANT to be taken seriously, and this is all just an amusing diversion for you, then you have certainly accomplished your goal. Congratulations.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Trolls ? Aren't they the ones who build SAABS??

Smokie

__________________
95 E420 BigBlue
500E Sway bars
2001 C Class 16 in. Rims
KYB Struts and shocks
Rear spoiler
American Stitches Wheel
Bigred 99 F250 Powerstroke
JVC EXAD Mp3 player
JVC EXAD GPS

I share your sentiment in the need for civilized discussion, name-calling is certainly counterproductive, immature and ads no intellectual value to the subject discussed (my “asswipe” comment not withstanding, a word I find endlessly amusing however others may not share my sentiment). Where we differ however is your reaction to such an event, I believe that bullies should be confronted and shown that they can not, with impunity, insult others, there should always be a consequence to their actions (i.e. I will not turn the other cheek).
I do realize that some subjects are difficult to members on occasion and discussing certain historical events brings up hidden emotions, however, as I have stated before no one has the exclusive right to suffering, and encountering a differing opinion during such discussions should not give a blanket immunity to abuse the poster(s) with conflicting beliefs. We are living in times when a mere mention of some events automatically brings up a well orchestrated chorus not only to discredit the dissenter’s theories by all means necessary but smear the personality and tarnish the reputation of the person for no other reason than him/her daring to have a diverging point of view. This tendency has been shown in both threads more so on the previous occasion.
At this junction I like to take the opportunity to take a cheap but extremely satisfying shot at a member, who through the conduct of his own, is no longer with us: KV, I know you are reading this and so, believe me, nothing gives me more pleasure (at least not when I am logged into MS) than knowing that you are sitting in front of your computer and can barely control your anger, your hands shaking, veins popping, just itching to fake another IP address to get back in and offer a, no doubt very well thought out, rebuttal in the form a few four letter words. Sorry pal, RIP.
As to the subject of this discussion I specifically selected my quotes from sources that are beyond reproach, not wanting to give my opposition an extra reason to question my credibility, nonetheless I was criticized for my choices. Had I chosen gentile sources I would have been attacked for using questionable material (it seems that the only reliable source, when we are discussing political events of certain nature, are the ones that are emanating from the party most concerned, I find this most objectionable), but by selecting other sources I was still criticized for not including dissenting opinion in my effort to validate my assertions. It is just irrational for me to include opinions that would contradict my theories, that is the duty of my opposition. Perhaps it would have been more beneficial to the readers if the subjects were discussed in detail, i.e. is there a real possibility that only one party is responsible for a conflict in its entirety when it is almost timeless in its nature and when, if ever, will the need and demand for compensation for past wrongs cease to exist.

Alex

First, consider the foundation.
Who is it that has verified the efficacy of the supposition that ‘a certain people’ are the progenitors of disharmony, and in what fashion have they done it?
If you have attended a church, and there, heard the proclamations of more than one mullah, then you know that they are each different. There are common threads instilled by the ‘spoonfuling’ that affirms every purposeful institution.
Yet differences exist in each, delivery, message and indications, variations to subtle and stark degrees.
A member of such that supports with clarity the position of their ‘anathema’ is a rare member of any institution.
By calling into question the blame that is due a perceived ‘herotic’, they attempt to move the center to recognition of the ‘crimes’ historical nature... and in exploring a fuller series of events, perceive an inevitable outcome that has proceeded. In doing so they lay sight more firmly upon the impingeable reality of the present through the underused process of remorse.
That you have found not only one example but many, and perhaps many more un-presented, is a sign of an active symbiotic characteristic.

Second, What is the purpose of the design?
When I asked the question, “do you have a remedy?”, it was meant to bring the coming reality into focus. There are specific choices that face us every day. The sum total of them will inevitably create a historical outcome, which will be similarly impervious to manipulation at the time of its fruition.

"Today, they have created a myth in the name of Holocaust and consider it to be above God, religion and the prophets,"

"This is our proposal: if you committed the crime, then give a part of your own land in Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to them so that the Jews can establish their country,"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s position is supported by a reasonable interpretation of the historical past, in his conclusions he displays a myth of his own, which outweighs God, religion and the prophets. His own separate place, now under the sway of outsiders who must be dealt with in an “instrumental” fashion.

Look deeply at us all, and who is not the same?
The side we stand on is largely determined by expedience.
The factors that will create the historical outcome are largely in place.
And yet, each man must still act to affirm or deny the harmony or discord within him.

__________________
-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html

You find it extremely satisfying to take a cheap shot at someone who is no longer here to defend himself? Gosh -- I'm "reeling" in admiration.

He's here, some people just aren't smart enough to see that posts duplicate threads at Benzirld

Some very good points....

But in a forum such as this, it is not your responsibility to dole out these "consequences" to those you deem "bullies". That is what we have moderators for.

When someone becomes insulting on one of these threads, the best course of action is to just stay the course.... Continue to make your arguments and your points without resorting to the same insulting, juvenile behavior.

Usually the offending party will "chill out" eventually. If not, and it escalates beyond what is acceptable, then the moderators will handle it.

Either way, your nose is still clean.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

FWIW, speaking of name calling, Bot took a few hard swings at Dacia ending up with a solid opining that he's a bigot. Like I said, he's more animated on the topic than I am, a bit of relaxation might be beneficial. However, it's amazing to me how a lot of people who profess to eschew PC speech are loathe to step out of the official position that Jews are innocent victims, end of story.

Their experience at the hands of the Nazis can never be whitewashed and I make no attempt to. Likewise, I have no interest in giving tacit approval to their using not dissimilar tactics against the people who they wish to evict from the real estate they covet.

When people talk about Arabs (and Iran) not recoginizing the right of Israel to exist, it might help if they could get a solid assurance that Israel had acquired territory defined by **some finite borders** with an intent to be happy with that for oh, 100 years or so, rather than witnessing the ongoing unfolding of the true scope of their territorial ambitions.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I've worked with plenty of our Latino brothers and they generally be some hard-working dudes. Fortunately for me, they ain't always the best finish carpenters, sometimes, but often their work is just a little too rough to go beyond framing.

On the stone, tile, and bricklaying, I'm thinking it's something they've done a lot of down south. And then, there's the very real possibility that they've had some up-close experience with the reality of starvation being just around the corner lessen you work your but off. A good argument against lefty welfare-state-ism I guess.

And, oh yeah, discussing Jews and Israel can go radioactive real quick.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

After careful re-examination of my post I failed to locate the part that would require one KV to take any course of action whatsoever. It was a simple case of self gratification at another's self-created misfortune. Cheap? Surely. Satisfying? Immensely.

Not to beat the dead horse or anything but since you guys are wondering here is an excerpt from an interview with Noam Chomsky (Avram Noam Chomsky (born December 7, 1928) is the Institute Professor Emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.)
http://www.chomsky.info/books/dissent01.htm
In a free and democratic society there should be no taboos, no discussion or subject should be considered too sensitive or too “hot” to debate even if it means that some people’s toes get stepped on.
Here is what the Supreme Court of Canada thinks about this very subject:
“Society may be enriched by cultural and intellectual diversity, which does include unpopular views on history and other matters of discomfort to certain minorities.”
(Supreme Court of Canada)
Couldn't have said it better myself. Really.


Alex

I've been rereading Stephen Kinzer's book, "All the Shah's Men." I must confess I only read about a third of the chapters before. The history of British manipulation of corrupt Iranian shahs from the late 1800s to the early 50s is striking. OTOH, the Brits did invest a lot of money and effort in finding the first oil fields, at a time when Iranians didn't have a clue about oil.

Still, Mossadeq was the closest thing that country had ever had to a George Washington after a long succession of corrupt and greedy monarchs. The book included these two pictures which are telling.


Whoa, surrounded by grinning jackals...

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh

__________________
-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html