If it's the teachers that screw kids up every kid would be screwed up because they pass through the same teachers door at some point. If a class routinly underperforms as a whole you can aim it at the teacher.

I'm not giving any teachers a pass because I do agree that way too many shouldn't be in charge of a garbage truck but if a child is failing it's up to the parent to correct it.....not the school system.

I am not "blaming the kid" in every case. neither do I excuse the kid in every case. Until you have seen the attitude that some of these kids have, you should remain silent.....

Really? Let's talk about that.

Why do you think these kids have that "attitude" as you put it? YOu think they come out of wht womb predisposed to be difficult? You don't think it has much to do with the fact that they fall behind, at first just a little, and then more and more... with each teacher letting it happen? Nahhhh... couldn't be that! Blame the kid!

Or. How about the parent? Has anyone tried to reach out for the parent? Nahhhh... why bother. It is SO much easier to "label" the kid and dope him/her up on drugs so the teacher can go their merry little way.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and it would seem *you* should remain silent. Children, in most cases are molded into what they are. To blame the child for the way society and their parents have molded them is moronic at best.

(There are exceptions. There are those very few, and VERY rare cases where the kid is just a freakin' nut-job -- I would say 1% of those drugged really need it.

Personally I always thought school was what you made of it. I found it to be boring and rather slow and dull, so I learned a lot about what interested me outside.

Home school seems like a good option, however just remember don't cut the kid off from a social life.

On the ADD/ADHD subject I suspect that a lot of people jump to the conlcusion that their kid has it and drug them. I mean come on who really expects a 10 year old to sit like a little angle and pay perfect attention all day? I mean come on I'm 20 and zone out in 2.5 hour long classes all the time.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

No experience on home schooling.

My son was diagnosed ADHD pretty early on by a doctor, Richard Pesikoff, who is a psychiatrist of some note and an expert on ADHD.
I don't think the diagnosis came from his wish to experiment with drugs on my child.

If there really is a biochemical problem causing the ADHD, don't write off the drug therapy entirely.

Everybody seems to be against drugs at first, but you don't cure a broken arm by talking to it.

You can't effectively change brain chemistry by substituting a house for a school.

Really? What does your doctor say are the long term effects of using these "drugs"? I assume you looked into food allergies, excercises to expand attention span (reading and reciting, etc.), group activies that are focused and have a start and end. I also assume you spoke with his teachers (the good ones) and discussed what alternatives there are to the meds? I'm certain you spent the needed time, one-on-one with him doing educational things like flash-cards, reading, singing, stacking blocks from start to finish, etc.) Once that was all done how did it go with the doctors that you researched that were not predisposed to medicate? What was their opinion?

I know all of these things take A LOT of effort, time, sometimes money, and energy. And I am in no way trying to say you're not a good parent. I just always am interested in how quick we arrive at the quick-fix, and how much effort we put into research and understanding why things are the way they are.

It takes A LOT of work to do all this, work that most people would rather allocate toward NFL and MLB's Derek Jeeter's score card (or whatever they use). Raising a kid when everything is "right" is hard work to start with... but doing it today with two parents at work, and a kid that may need more attention than some others is VERY hard work. No wonder we all rush to medicate. It's so much easier.

Please, this is NOT an attack. But I have admit, I would like to know what you did before putting him on meds.

Oh, and the "broken arm" line of crap the shrinks give you about putting them on meds.

Here's the way you should answer:

"The broken arm goes in CAST, the arm heals, and then the cast is removed and the arm becomes strong with physical theraphy and time. -- NOT drugs that may have to be used for life with NO idea of what they can do in 20 years. Also, the drugs will NOT cure the problem. (as used in the broken arm example) the drugs only MASK the problem.) It's like telling a person to eat a can of soup because they are on their meds for Hypertension. How about you don't eat the can of soup so the levels god DOWN!?"

We did all the above and more. It was more than a year and 3 or 4 allergists and various other medical doctors and specialists before we arrived at the course we took. I also went to a parents "class" 3 nights a week while the children were in a behavioral therapy and socialization type of thing. The parents were given homework and exercises to do with the children to modify their (parents) own behavior so as not to encourage the kids' disruptive behaviors.

I took him to regular psychiatric therapy 2 times a week after work. The good doctors agree that drugs are merely an adjunct to behavioral therapy and neither is effective in certain cases without the other.

In fact the whole family was involved in the therapy. It ran into about $20k before it was over. Took about 5 years to pay it off without insurance.

I did get my own multiplication tables tightened up when I was through with the flash cards.

I can't be an expert in everything, though when it's your kid, you do tend to try to become one. After exhausting all the avenues and let me stress for you, ALL the other avenues, did we consent to the medicine.

It was a huge effort and I will admit there were many other things I would have rather used my time for.

Yes.

Mike

__________________
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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Actually, he is EXACTLY correct. It is you, and most everyone else, who has been miseducated. We ARE a representative republic. Nowhere in the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence, or the Bill of Rights does the word "democracy" appear. In fact, our founding fathers were very conscious of AVOIDING becoming a pure democracy, because a pure democracy is nothing more than "mob rules".

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Yes.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

I think home-schooling is an excellent idea, if you and/or your wife actually have the time and resources to do it.

I admire you for even considering it. It's a daunting task, to be sure.

Regardless, ANYTHING is an improvement over the majority of our public schools.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

I wasn't "blaming" anyone. What I did was point out observations. You are the one who turned that into "blame"
I am all with you on the parents. "Get them involved"?!! The parents are often invisible; not reporting for duty. Too often will defend their child and thus sustain the lack of education.
Of course the "system" gets some blame. Teachers who have become so frustrated with the PC crap that now all they do is put in the time until retirement. Blame the administration who test to pass tests; not for understanding. Blame society for whatever reason.
And yes, some of the "blame" goes for some of the kids. How can you possibly absolve them of any responsibity? Its their lives they are screwing up, but their community leaders would rather blame whitey than to accept responsibility and make changes. Playing the victum is a sure way to stay a victum.
Exercise responsibility for your own decisions and results. It can be done. Many have proven it. Just stop giving everyone a free pass and telling them " Its not your fault"

My bad. I misread that--I think I confused the quote to which he was responding as Omegamans's words. No excuse for not understanding it.
I KNOW we are a representative republic and not a democracy; and it was planned that way.

Good.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic