Do you have an inherent disdain for law enforcement? Your post shows me where your true feelings lie.

I've met cops I had a great deal of respect for as well as some who seemed to regard me with contempt. I'm sure it's a tough job. I drove cab off and on for about 12, 13 years in Seattle, night shift usually, and I've seen some of the kind of crap that goes on on the mean streets after dark. I've seen one cop trying to apprehend a black suspect by himself, surrounded by a growing crowd of others from the hood and, oh mah ghod, that shYte looks harry.

I had to deal with some rough trade in my cab but I'm absolutely certain it was only a shadow of what police have to deal with on a daily basis. On the Rodney King thing, for example, if I had to chase some idiot on high speed chase, with all the inherent risks to innocent people and the reputation of the Dept. on the line, and then caught the guy and it turns out he was trying to avoid being caugt on a DUI, damned if I'd be gentle with the mo-fo. They got a bit carried away, but I think everyone freaked out way too much on that one.

However, this business of reaching for the gun as almost the first option does not impress me. I've been in plenty of hairy scrapes w/o a gun, not as bad as cops go through of course, and there are all sorts of pyschological ploys you can use that will buy time and eventually get you out of it. Cops in England didn't have guns for years because of the problems they can cause. Not sure how much they've changed that.

On the air marshall thing, the guy was OFF THE PLANE. He clearly looked Latino, not Arab, much less chance of him being a bomber. I don't go with this business of always nodding to the cop, no matter what. Then for them to badger people with "He said he had a bomb, didn't he?!" is a bit much.

Likewise with the lady in San Jose. I'll say it again. I think I'm man enough to take a knife away from a woman if I've got a billy club, hell,even w/o one but no one wants to be suicidal. ESPECIALLY if I've got a partner with me. Major over-reaction. When cops blow it, they should be held to some kind of accounting. How else will their training improve?

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Carl, I don't like to second guess the police when they have only seconds to react. The shooting of Diallo in NYC was a similar situation. He was unarmed and the police saw him reaching for "something" for which they presumed was a gun.

However, in this case, I've been mulling over the claim that "he reached into his bag and threatened to have a bomb".

Does this make any sense considering the circumstances? Why would this fellow threaten the authorities with a bomb? Nobody within earshot heard him make any reference to a bomb. Only the police version has him with a statement regarding a bomb.

How likely is it that he made no statement regarding a bomb and the marshals have used this as a convenient explanation for their actions?

IMHO, it's highly likely. They ran off the plane, all charged up, hoping to bag their first terrorist. Unfortunately, it's just a guy from nowhere who didn't take his medication.

Take a look at this version of the events and make your own decision:


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2005/091205miamiincident.htm


Something doesn't pass the smell test.

Interesting story. This sounds like the stuff I've been reading from other sources. It's a tough one all right. Somehow, we've got to be vigilant w/o losing our minds.

The Miami police are going to investigate it. You know much about Timini (sp) the Miami police chief? The guy is way strange. I saw a lot of footage of him after the Miami Free Trade Zone of the Americas, or something like that, meeting where police freaked out and were shooting people in the head w/ beanbag rounds, not beans but shotgun pellets in a nylon bag, fired from a shotgun. They're not supposed to be fired at the head.

Most all witnesses report that there was little or no chaos or threat of violence but the police just went off. This guy Timini is the kind of guy who should not be a cop, IMO. Very self-righteous and dismissive of anything other than his own opinion.

Look for a whitewash if Timini is involved.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

But how many times did incidents happen with the air marshals and the outcome was favorable.

What would you call favourable?

How about this? Last year on business in Boise, ID (yes, I was shocked to find out they do more than potatoes as well). My return flight landed and was immediatly surrounded by police and some other unmarked personel in black.

After about 10 min. they empted the plane, but kept about 5 passengers aside at the base of the stares. After a bit more of a delay a handcuffed hippie looking guy, with no shoes and no shirt on was escorted off the plane by a big dude that looked like Billy Ray Cyrus (or something out of Texas Rangers). The passengers pointed at him (ID'ed the guy?) then they loaded him up in a PD car and whisked him away.

Now, for the dude in handcuffs I'm sure it was less than favorable but.. it would seem to me that not all Air Marshall interventions involve the perp dying.

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One thing people are failing to miss is that people are animals. In tense situations you have adreniline pumping and other chemicals acting for you. Yeah sure this guy got shot, and the little lady got shot. More people die in auto accidents daily and get no emntion in the news. This was a week ago and its still being debated about. And i really hate articles like the prision planet. ALl in all people just do not understand what is going through a law enforcement officers mind when they are in these situations and no one thinks about that. They think that they always have a rational mind and think everything through 5 times before doing that.

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81' 300SD AKA "Big Helga"
84' 300D Euro spec (Veronika)
85' 300D NonCalifornia (Heidi)

"We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job."
-Winston Churchill, 1941

"I'll have a Chinchilla!"

That is a good point. My point here is not to slime the air marshalls or the two cops involved when the lady was shot in SJ. I'm thinking we should be able to dissect these incidents and perhaps come up with improvements in training that will enable cops to respond to some of these situations in ways that will keep them safe while making fewer embarrassing errors, errors of the sort that weaken good relations between police and the community.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Our tax dollars are already being spent attempting to accomplish this. Why do we, as untrained Monday-morning QBs, now have the insight to be able to develop real solutions to this?

You wrote in an earlier thread "Gun totin' cops are getting out of control."

Seems the real reason to discuss this is a gripe session.

Where is Narwhal? No way he could pass-up that across-the-plate slow pitch.

B

OK, the gun totin' cop line was over the top, and it was in this thread. Here it comes: HOWEVER, this monday morning quarterback lives in the real world which involves the real possibility of having a shotgun pointed at my head on flimsy grounds. I don't have a right to comment on that?

At one of the protests in the Bay area leading up to the invasion of Iraq, a bunch of protesters gathered at one of the Port of Oakland's terminals. They weren't blocking traffic or using violence against anyone, according to witnesses, many of whom were longshoremen arriving at work, a group you might think would have reason to be unfavorably disposed towards such demonstrators. The Oakland PD responded by using "non-lethal" weapons in ways they are not supposed to be used: shooting at people's heads. There were pictures in the paper of cops leveling the wooden baton shooting rifles at head level. Several people were struck in the face and head causing serious injuries. The manufacturer's instructions state explicitly that the batons should be fired towards the ground so they can bounce along and bash people in the shins, which would hurt like hell and discourage furhter advances.

I forget who, Hannity, Rush, or O'Reilly were saying something afterwards like, "Ho boy, they should'a let some of those longshoremen loose on them. THAT would'a taught them a lesson!" Funny thing, longshoremen who were present, waiting for a gate to open to let them into work, were also hit by some of these munitions and spoke out strongly against the police action, calling it unwarranted and heavy handed.

I find a lot of those demonstrators to be a bit whiny and clue-less myself, but it is an important part of our democracy. Cops don't have the right to teach such people a lesson. I know police work is not easy work, but high standards must be maintained, or else we're getting on slippery slopes.

AND, once more, anyone care to comment on two cops going into a house and shooting a big bad Vietnamese woman wielding a knife?? Jay-sus Christ, I don't know if I could call myself a man after something like that. Where were their damn billy clubs?!? The family had told them what she was armed with. They had a silly notion that the cops could handle the situation better than they could.

You don't think I know a thing or two about danger? Try driving cab night shift in a big city -- all neighborhoods -- armed with a 5 D cell steel flashlight and get back to me.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Find your tongue, big guy, and give it a shot.

BTW, that's quite a load of baggage you haul around with you. Did someone actually say those things to you?

Oh, cruel world.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Welcome to the democratic process. You said our tax dollars. That's the point, we spend them and we damn well better stand up and dispense advice if and when they are not being spent well. The impression I'm getting you from you is "The cops are always right. Shut up you damn hippie."

Power corrupts and the power cops have is a power we entrust them with. When they use it badly, damned if I'm gonna sit back and be assured that the proper steps are being taken to remedy matters. There's not a hell of a lot I can do anyway and shutting up makes it about zero.

I've had many good encounters with cops and some experiences where I was convinced the cop needed some different type of vocational training, like, right away.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I especially like "Master of all that is knowable."

That moniker was given to him, as were most I believe, by an admirer overcome with awe at his undeniable brilliance.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K