What is the idea behing a kibbutz? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Plantman · #1 12-23-2005, 04:54 PM

I was checking out the web and it is defined as a "communal settlement".

What is the point?

Anyone ever live on one?

My israeli friend refers to it often, but he doesn't talk about it much.

Thanks

TheDon · #2 12-23-2005, 04:57 PM

that word is cool to say ..

PC Dave · #3 12-23-2005, 06:52 PM

Zionism, the movement behind the foundation of a Jewish homeland (i.e. Israel), was developed in the late 19th/early 20th centuries at the same time that Socialism was a growing movement in Europe. Lots of the early Zionists were Socialists, and for its first 20-30 years Israel's economy was pretty strongly socialist. A Kibbutz figures in with that theme, it's basically similar to a collective farm except that a) the Kibbutzim jointly benefit from the (literal) fruits of their labor instead of shipping it off to Moscow (or Tel Aviv) per your quota, and b) nobody shoots you if you try to leave.

Austin85 · #4 12-24-2005, 12:14 AM

Never been on a kibbutz , but friends have and loved it....although these days it may be a bit more risky ...with W screwing up the whole f'in world....

Palangi · #5 12-24-2005, 12:18 AM

Uhhh, Haven't the Arabs and the Israelis been screwing up that part of the world since before Shrub was born? Just checking......

Austin85 · #6 12-24-2005, 12:21 AM

I guess, if you want to get technical about it....

aklim · #7 12-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Uhhh, Haven't the Arabs and the Israelis been screwing up that part of the world since before Shrub was born? Just checking......

If we looked at facts like that, how would we blame Bush? Of course, the legislative arm is totally innocent. He probably pulled the rug out from under them so we can scratch them off the blame list.

BTW, maybe the idea that Marx was Jewish might have something to do with why it is popular with Jews? Like Rap with black people maybe?

Austin85 · #8 12-24-2005, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If we looked at facts like that, how would we blame Bush? Of course, the legislative arm is totally innocent. He probably pulled the rug out from under them so we can scratch them off the blame list.

BTW, maybe the idea that Marx was Jewish might have something to do with why it is popular with Jews? Like Rap with black people maybe?

A racist , in Wisconsin..now that's a new one.

aklim · #9 12-24-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin85

A racist , in Wisconsin..now that's a new one.

How is that racist? Just saying that may be a reason.

kerry · #10 12-24-2005, 11:28 PM

Hitler hated Marxism for its internationalism before he came to associate internationalist political theory with Jews.

Palangi · #11 12-24-2005, 11:35 PM

I don't see a kibbutz as being the same as a Soviet style collective farm.

A kibbutz is a group of people who have banded together (voluntarily, we must assume) for the common good of all the members. This is the essence of true socialism, and is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, the Mercedesshop community is a group of people who have banded together for the common good of the members.

A Soviet style collective farm was a group of people, often forced together at gunpoint, who labored for the benefit of the government. The Russkies liked to call it socialism, but, of course, it was completely phony.

Both forms had common roots in Eastern Europe, but they evolved in different ways.

Unfortunately, the form being pushed by leftists today more closely resembles the phony type.

aklim · #12 12-24-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

A kibbutz is a group of people who have banded together (voluntarily, we must assume) for the common good of all the members. This is the essence of true socialism, and is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, the Mercedesshop community is a group of people who have banded together for the common good of the members.

Yes, but are you sure that the community did not band together for their own good and the common good just happens to be served at the same time as a side effect? Why didn't the members join say the "Artic Cat group" or the "Polaris group"? It might be because they are hoping for some benifit out of it themeselves and once in a while, they have to pony up with some knowledge to keep things going. Something I learnt when training dogs. NILIF. Nothin In Life Is Free.

Palangi · #13 12-24-2005, 11:45 PM

Exactly right. They banded together on farms to grow food for one and all, as well as to protect themselves from marauding Arabs at the time. Food and shelter, basically, but the key point is, it was for the good of the members, not the central government.

Austin85 · #14 12-25-2005, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How is that racist? Just saying that may be a reason.

it was the "like rap with black people" line that lit the red lite....that's a bit racist, unitentional or not....

aklim · #15 12-25-2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin85

it was the "like rap with black people" line that lit the red lite....that's a bit racist, unitentional or not....

Guess we are kinda touchy when it comes to race huh? Sorry, I was too distracted because of the X'mas float me and the Klan boys were planning. It plays the song "I'm dreaming of a white christmas" over and over again.