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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 09:41 AM
Mr.Kenny's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Springfield,MO
Posts: 277
Anyone here fly? How do I start?

I took ground school 5 years ago just for fun but never followed through with any flight time; So I didn't get my certificate.
Everything just seemed so expensive. And I mean everything.

How would you go about getting a pilots certificate on a budget???
I thought about getting the new sport class certificate, and building or buying an experimental. (I have some experience at building composite aircraft)
I sure would like to learn to fly before I get old, but I'm very frugal.

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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:29 AM
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If you don't need to learn to take off and land too...there's some school here in Oklahoma that you could try !



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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:32 AM
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Have you tried gliders? Its not really flying, but there are many clubs and it is generally cheaper.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:10 AM
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The pilot's certificate will take you at least forty hours of flight time to get; sixty is more typical, though, because people spread out their training, take breaks for financial or other reasons, etc.

The least expensive way to get the full pilot's license is to take several weeks off work or school, go to somewhere like Arizona, and enroll in a high-intensity flight training program. Google for such schools. If you're flying every day, your total hours before you're ready for the test will be reduced.

Otherwise, I'd suggest just spreading out your time, which is what most people do. Pick an airport that is not in a major city, as airplane and fuel costs are greater at the larger airports. Look for an instructor with more experience versus less, because a more experienced or a career instructor will be more efficient and effective as a teacher. Work out an agreement with another flight student to observe eachother's instructional flights, assuming the airplane is large enough to allow this; you can get a lot out of observing others' instruction.

Also, think about joining the Experimental Aircraft Association or the Civil Air Patrol, where you can get to know other pilots, get some back seat or copilot time, and in the case of CAP, get some related training on the cheap or even free.

Feel free to PM me for more info/advice/questions. I was a full-time instructor for two years and still do some here and there, and have given over 1000 hours of flight instruction. I'm out of the country through the 6th of January but may be on from time to time.
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:58 AM
dannym's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Deltona, Florida
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Forget about flying and go for skydiving.
Out here in Deland Florida they have an advanced freefall course. It costs 1K for 7 jumps and instruction. You take a 6 hour course then you go jump. You never do a tandem but you always have an instructor with you and for the first 3 jumps you have 2 instructors with you.
What a rush from that!

I think flying would be cool but just to go up and tool around seems like a waste of time. I think the thrill would wear off real fast.
Now if you could fly to the Bahama's every month or so then tha twould be OK.

DAnny
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:10 PM
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Location: Evansville WI
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My secret is I wasn't afraid to WORK to get flight time. I got a job at the FBO (fixed base operator) working the flight line fuelling and hangaring, things like that. In the summer it was HOT out working on the ramp, in the winter I froze my privates off (not literally), but it was fun at times and saved I think it was 20% on everything (ground, dual, and plane rental). I think I was typical, about 65 hrs or so when I got my license, but alot of that was solo time, which was great fun if flying is what you want to do. I did that job for several years after I got my private license. Lots of guys serious about flying would then work on their other endorsements to get the instructor license, and get paid a meager sum to build flight time instructing. I would have been the perfect candidate to do just that since I had my foot in the door on the line, but decided it wasn't something I wanted to persue.
I would disagree that it's better to find a small field to fly from, or if you do, don't get in the rut of always flying from an uncontrolled field, as the small ones are called. I think you get a better experience flying from a controlled field where you have ATIS, grond control, tower, and approach and departure control. If you ever want to do some "real" flying, say a long cross country into a larger airport (say for some big event or large attration) you're gonna feel a whole lot more comfortable in a situation like that if you were exposed to all the extra procedures early on in your flying. I don't know how many guys I've talked to who were uncomfortable flying into controlled airspace because of the extra procedures involved. I'm just the opposite, now I'd RATHER fly into a controlled airport as opposed to a small municipal field, feels alot safer to me.
It is fun going in to a small grass strip though, it is alot more "back to basics" flying and I do/did enjoy that feeling too. You feel like you are really doing something unique when you're the only one using the field, as opposed to being vectored in to land along with a couple 727's, a Gulfstream, a few other small aircraft, etc, you feel more like you are a nuciance than anything else.

Gilly
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:45 PM
TwitchKitty's Avatar
Я не хакер
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Varies
Posts: 4,333
The cost of flying has doubled in the last five years.

Find an instructor who owns his own plane and runs it on pump (auto) gas. After he solos you, go out and buy your own plane. Fly all you want and sell the plane before it needs a new engine or a paint job, license optional.
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:36 PM
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Just fine as long as you're happy flying solo day VFR. No night flying, no passengers. Oh and you'd be buying only a non-high performance plane also; fixed pitch prop, no retractable gear. Maybe he'd be happy like this, but if so he'd probably be just as happy with an ultralight. Do you need a special endorsement to fly one of these 2 person ultralights?
Gilly
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:55 PM
nkowi
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 452
If you're careful, this can work (or at least, used to work); Step up and buy a small "trainer" plane (Cessna 150/152, Piper Colt/Tri-Pacer, etc.), then identify a young pilot/instructor who's working on his commercial rating and needs to log all the hours he can get. He uses your plane for all his other private pilot students (he gets to log his students' non-solo hours as his own) which, if he has a sufficient number of, can be more than enough to pay for the plane itself and its associated maintenance costs. In exchange for the use of your aircraft and the hours he compiles by using it for instruction for his other students, he trains you for nothing (well, not nothing - he gets to log your non-solo hours too). Cut the right deal, with the right guy, and you can get all the way through your Instrument rating for virtually nothing. Once through, sell the plane if you must (they tend to appreciate, so you shouldn't get hurt) or continue using it as a trainer, allowing you to fly for virtually nothing. Remember, this worked 20-30 years ago when the cost of flying was less than it is now. Will it work now? I don't know, you can crunch the numbers in your area and determine that for yourself. How much can you rent it for to his other students (wet or dry, shouldn't matter)? How much is an annual? How much for a Top Overhaul? A Major (remember, your plane will be piling up the hours)? Most guys don't want their plane used this much, or in this manner, and therefore most guys avoid it. But it certainly can (or used to) work. Good luck!
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2005, 01:35 AM
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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It all depends on how much time and resources you are willing to devote to the subject. Be willing to spend as much time and studying as it takes. Shoot me a PM for more info.
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  #11  
Old 12-30-2005, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NKowi
then identify a young pilot/instructor who's working on his commercial rating and needs to log all the hours he can get. He uses your plane for all his other private pilot students
"Pilot/instructor". Can't be a CFI without having the Commercial and Instrument rating first.

If it's just someone riding along with you to teach you something. None of the hours logged towards the ratings are legal. They must be signed off in the logbook by a CFI. And then the above statement comes into play.

Hope your ratings are not based on this method.

Dave
ATP SEL/MEL DC-9, CFII
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:17 AM
nkowi
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmorrison
"Pilot/instructor". Can't be a CFI without having the Commercial and Instrument rating first.

If it's just someone riding along with you to teach you something. None of the hours logged towards the ratings are legal. They must be signed off in the logbook by a CFI. And then the above statement comes into play.

Hope your ratings are not based on this method.

Dave
ATP SEL/MEL DC-9, CFII
Forgive my mis-statement - I should have simply said "...a young Certified Instructor who is interested in logging as many hours as possible".
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2005, 11:28 AM
dmorrison's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NKowi
Forgive my mis-statement - I should have simply said "...a young Certified Instructor who is interested in logging as many hours as possible".
Ah yes! Young and hungry

My son was one of these, CFII and starting, but we've decided the airline career is being destroyed with all the bankruptcies lately and not worth the 10 years of work it will take to get there. He is now getting a MBA and a MS in Finance. He'll get a starting salary graduating that is equal to my 10 year copilots pay.

Dave
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1970 220D, owned 1980-1990
1980 240D, owned 1990-1992
1982 300TD, owned 1992-1993
1986 300SDL, owned 1993-2004
1999 E300, owned 1999-2003
1982 300TD, 213,880mi, owned since Nov 18, 1991- Aug 4, 2010 SOLD
1988 560SL, 100,000mi, owned since 1995
1965 Mustang Fastback Mileage Unknown(My sons)
1983 240D, 176,000mi (My daughers) owned since 2004
2007 Honda Accord EX-L I4 auto, the new daily driver
1985 300D 264,000mi Son's new daily driver.(sold)
2008 Hyundai Tiberon. Daughters new car
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2005, 02:18 PM
nkowi
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmorrison
Ah yes! Young and hungry

My son was one of these, CFII and starting, but we've decided the airline career is being destroyed with all the bankruptcies lately and not worth the 10 years of work it will take to get there. He is now getting a MBA and a MS in Finance. He'll get a starting salary graduating that is equal to my 10 year copilots pay.

Dave
Agreed. An old friend who attended USNA then went on to fly Prowlers, etal for a dozen or so years found that, as a "Ring Knocker", he had so many doors open to him in the business world, he quickly gave up the idea of being an airline pilot and hired on with a Fortune 500 company at a far higher salary than he would ever have received working for an airline. Dylan was right indeed; "the times, they are a changin`".
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Last edited by NKowi; 12-31-2005 at 09:41 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:55 AM
Syracuse315's Avatar
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Syracuse
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Kenny
I took ground school 5 years ago just for fun but never followed through with any flight time; So I didn't get my certificate.
Everything just seemed so expensive. And I mean everything.

How would you go about getting a pilots certificate on a budget???
I thought about getting the new sport class certificate, and building or buying an experimental. (I have some experience at building composite aircraft)
I sure would like to learn to fly before I get old, but I'm very frugal.
You will need to take the FAA test again, it only lasts five years. After that, you can start flight school....

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