Canadian Election Thread

[coldwar]

Is anybody here at all interested in the Canadian election results?

I'll start. A new Conservative Prime Minister. And he's of a Conservative stripe that modern Canada has never had. It used to be Progressive Conservative, which in the U.S is kind of like saying Conservative Democrat. But no more- this new Conservative Party is much more capital-C.

A minority government with absolutely no wiggle room. The Conservatives will need the support of the other elected parties for absolutely everything they try to accomplish. In the typical and historic Canadian Parliamentary fashion, it just doesn't work that way. If they can actually make it work, that will be a huge change for the better- a move away from party politics and into consensus building. Also, this new Prime Minister Stephen Harper, if he wants to survive a four year mandate will have to do absolutely nothing stupid. Nothing. He will need the wisdom of Solomon.

If he wants to earn the right to a second term, assuming he's astute enough to survive the first term, he needs to build more trust and support of voters in the huge regions of Ontario and Quebec, as well as the quaint but very small Atlantic Provinces. His mandate came mainly from the oil and resource rich western Provinces.

This will be if nothing else an extremely interesting time for Canada, for anyone who finds Canada interesting.

Dave

[Azimyth]

Every oak begins as a seed.

[OMEGAMAN]

I've been waiting for this for a long time? Do you really think canadians will embrace conservatism or did they vote for the tories out of frustration with the liberals. I still find it amusing that liberal is not a dirty word up there.

[Botnst]

I'm glad Canadians have free and open elections. Whomever Canadians elect is fine with me. Internal politics is their domain.

B

[DieselAddict]

It seems like a lot of Canadians had enough of the scandal-plagued liberals, much like a lot of people over here have enough of the scandal-plagued conservatives. Change is good every now and then. It gives the ruling party a reality check.

[coldwar]

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN

I've been waiting for this for a long time? Do you really think canadians will embrace conservatism or did they vote for the tories out of frustration with the liberals. I still find it amusing that liberal is not a dirty word up there.

Very good questions. There certainly was the element of protest voting, and traditionally, Canada is a Liberal Democracy, more like France, Germany or Britain. However, the new Conservatives under Steven Harper are much more like your U.S. Republicans than Canada would ever be accustomed to. Time will tell if this movement will actually be embraced.

With the new political landscape that came out of yesterday's election, there is absolutely nothing the Conservatives will be able to do without forming a coalition with at least one of the other parties- Liberals, New Democrats (Socialists) and Bloq Quebois (who ONLY represent the pretend "nation" of Quebec). In order to survive this term, Harper will be on a very short leash when it comes to bringing in true Conservative reforms. If he can maintain the confidence of Parliament for four years, then hopefully the next election will bring more trust from the voters to provide the Conservatives the power they need to reform Canada.

We have certain "sacred values" up here that are pinned on us by the long-standing succession of Liberal and Progressive Conservative governments. One of those is "Universal Health Care". I don't think that a lot of Canadians actually realize that we in fact do not have universal health care- we never have, and I hope to God we never will. There are only two countries in the world that have this- Cuba and North Korea. In Canada, your visit to the Doctor and your hospitalization is paid for by the government. However, the prescription your Doctor gives you is not paid for. You either have to use Health Insurance if you're lucky enough to have it, or right out of your pocket for prescriptions.

Over the years, our public health care has eroded in both availability and quality, resulting in longer waiting times to get treatments. Yet, the government keeps the brakes on the establishment of private hospitals and clinics. My hope is that with Conservative health reform, private clinics will be licensed, so that those who can afford it will take advantage of them (hell, we already have people going to U.S. private clinics in droves). The more people we can get out of the public health lineups by establishing a parallel private health network, the more effective the public system will be for those who need it most.

So I for one am really hopeful that our new Conservatives can eventually succeed in establishing some of these long overdue reforms. I'm certain it won't happen during this term in office- it will be four years of survival mode, where the Social Democrats especially will be the most likely to set the tone for policy.

[Kuan]

We can't even threaten to move to Canada anymore

[OMEGAMAN]

What is the procedure for forcing an early election buy the other parties? The last time I remember this happening was when Joe Clark was PM and that was'nt for very long either.
I was reading in the vancouversun about a non confidence vote? does that sound right to you?
Can the remaining parties combine to form a majorty and elect a leader or do you have to have another federal election?

[coldwar]

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN

What is the procedure for forcing an early election buy the other parties? The last time I remember this happening was when Joe Clark was PM and that was'nt for very long either.
I was reading in the vancouversun about a non confidence vote? does that sound right to you?
Can the remaining parties combine to form a majorty and elect a leader or do you have to have another federal election?

Actually, this is what just happened this time. Yesterday's election was a result of a no-confidence vote against the Liberals late last year. The Liberals were in a minority government position, and got toppled by a rejection of their proposed budget by the other three parties. The vote was also greatly bolstered by the fact that in the interest of preventing Quebec separation, the Liberals had taken $$millions in taxpayer's money to make secret and unlawful payments to Liberal-friendly advertizing agencies in Quebec- the aptly named "sponsorship scandal".

This time the Conservatives are in a minority position, and it is a tighter one than the Liberals held before. If our new government fails to win the consensus of the other parties to the point of "no-confidence", then another no-confidence vote can be proposed in Parliament, and if it passes, then we would be forced into yet another Federal election. You can quickly see how bizarre this really is- especially in the fact that one of the Parties running federally only runs candidates in the Province of Quebec, and manages to consume enough seats in Parliament that it would be almost impossible for any of the truly Federal Parties to form a majority. I cannot for the life of me understand how this can even be allowed to happen.

[kerry]

What's happening with the New Democrats? They seemed to be gaining strength a few years ago. Are they declining now? Is the strength of the conservatives still in the West? Do the conservatives still hold power in Ontario? I used to live in Toronto in the late 70's and when I went back a few years ago I was very surprised at the appearance of homeless people and beggars on the streets. I never saw that in the 70's.

[Zeus]

The New Democrats (NDP) have gained a bit more momentum this election - due in part to their leader's charisma (Jack Layton) and I think they gained some Liberal protest votes. Compared to Martin and Harper, Layton is a regular James Dean.

Time will tell what changes this may or may not bring to Canada. Like coldwar posted, Harper will be cautious and I doubt we'll see any major reform.

As to our 'core' Canadian values, I believe strongly in them despite several Conservative leanings. Healthcare is one of them. I hope it stays universal. The system has its flaws, but it is still one of the best in the world. All the people touting the US system must be rich. You better have very comprehensive insurance in the US if you get truly sick - especially chronic diseases like cancer. In Canada, yes, you pay for the drugs. But your hospital stay, diagnoses, operations, etc. are paid for. My wife is an MD and I've gotten to know the system better than I ever wanted to.

As to the Bloq Québequois, don't even bloody get me started - I'll rant like Bonehead Doctor on speed, tied down by Liberals from Brokeback Mountain.

The Bloq is essentially a party that wants to separate from Canada and become its own nation selling maple syrup and poutine to the world. It makes me incredibly angry. And I was bloody born in Québec and speak French, esti colice.

You'd think the Queen would move her butt and have them all drawn and quartered for treason now wouldn't you?

[DieselAddict]

So in Canada you don't even have to make any copayment when you visit a doctor? If not, don't people abuse the system and see their doctors for silly reasons? In the US, you're definitely screwed if you don't have health insurance, which is the case for an increasing number of people. Plus your coverage can be denied because of pre-existing conditions. That's scary. Health care here is extremely expensive and widespread obesity and its health effects are at least partly to blame. I think a mix of socialized medicine (with some copay) and private hospitals would be the best solution. That way everyone is covered and those who can afford it can see a private doctor if they want to.

[Botnst]

If the consumer doesn't pay for the medical attention out-of-pocket at treatment, who pays for it?

B

[OMEGAMAN]

Originally Posted by Botnst

If the consumer doesn't pay for the medical attention out-of-pocket at treatment, who pays for it?

B

The province has to pay if your on the government medical plan. Otherwise you have to pay out of pocket like here. It's a lot less expensive for a doctor visit up there I think thats because of less medical malpractice lawsuites.
Make no mistake there is no free ride you pay one way or the other. Taxes are high up there compared to here.
While we are on the topic of the new conservative government in Canada, whats the G.S.T. rate at now? That was implimented during Brian Mulroney's rule he was a so called conservative. gst is the goods and services tax. it's federal

[DieselAddict]

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN

Make no mistake there is no free ride you pay one way or the other. Taxes are high up there compared to here.

Trust me, I'm not making any mistake about it. I'd rather have my taxes go toward health care than useless wars. The same "no free ride" rule applies to tax cuts as well. If you have massive spending and insufficient taxes you get a deficit which leads to inflation, weak currency and a potentially unstable economy. Very high taxes tend to suffocate the economy and are not good either. It's all about striking the right balance.