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  #1  
Old 03-14-2006, 03:23 PM
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The next common enemy...

Why can't congress just put together a 7 year plan for reducing fuel consumption by 25%?

But no. Instead.... Congress Challenges Oil Executives on Profits

The top executives of the big oil companies were once again called before Congress today to defend their industry's recent mergers and record profits.

It was the second time in four months that the oil industry faced strong public criticism from both Republican and Democratic politicians. In November, a third of the Senate was present for a theatrical show of indignation, but one that was followed by little legislation.

Increasingly, rising energy and fuel costs are becoming potent issues in Washington. In January, President Bush said in his State of the Union address that he wanted to cut America's "addiction" to oil and develop alternative fuels.

Senator Arlen Specter, the Pennsylvania Republican who is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, called the hearings to examine whether the oil and gas industry's concentration had resulted in higher gasoline prices at the pump.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/14/business/14cnd-oil.html?hp&ex=1142398800&en=3364b395f8ea13f8&ei=5094&partner=homepage

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  #2  
Old 03-14-2006, 04:29 PM
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Didn't GW say we are a nation addicted to oil recently?
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2006, 08:18 PM
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maybe the hollywood types should give up the limo's and private jets....


and set an example...but naw...they are "special"
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2006, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
maybe the hollywood types should give up the limo's and private jets....


and set an example...but naw...they are "special"
But BHD, who cares what the hollywood types do? I'm in no way impressed. I bet that you're not either.
  #5  
Old 03-14-2006, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L
But BHD, who cares what the hollywood types do? I'm in no way impressed. I bet that you're not either.
well look who the "FRONT" people for the "we use way too much oil" crowd are...limmo riding., palacial house owning, private aircraft flying energy hogs....

Lets see the people whining the most about this be required to practice what they preach or suffer public ridicule for being hypocrits. THose who are practicing what they preach are rare birds.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  #6  
Old 03-14-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
well look who the "FRONT" people for the "we use way too much oil" crowd are...limmo riding., palacial house owning, private aircraft flying energy hogs....

Lets see the people whining the most about this be required to practice what they preach or suffer public ridicule for being hypocrits. THose who are practicing what they preach are rare birds.
Does that include our law makers or do most of them drive hybrids?
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2006, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
well look who the "FRONT" people for the "we use way too much oil" crowd are...limmo riding., palacial house owning, private aircraft flying energy hogs....

Lets see the people whining the most about this be required to practice what they preach or suffer public ridicule for being hypocrits. THose who are practicing what they preach are rare birds.

We are all part of the problem. We need leadership. Congress can pass a bill to make much more stringent CAFÉ requirements over the next 7 years. Establish tough requirements for each class of vehicle. Gaining efficiency each year until in 2013 when the vehicles with the least and most efficient fuel consumption gets 25% or more improvement. We could do half of that today just by getting rid of the biggest vehicles in each class of consumer vehicles alone. Business vehicles would require proof of utility if they are below minimum consumption.

A fuel consumption tax on license renewal would be applied. The better efficiency the lower the tax down to 0. Use the proceeds to pay to retire older vehicles. At 10 years (2016) mandate that vehicles that don’t get 30 mpg are off the road. At 15 years mandate it at 35 mpg. Business would pass their fuel costs off to the consumer and we get a major revolution in the auto industry for the deal. Could even help dig Detroit out of it’s bankruptcy spirals...

But no, instead of even hinting at that Congress does a rare by-partisan dog and pony show. What the he** is wrong with them?!
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2006, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrierS
Does that include our law makers or do most of them drive hybrids?
don't get my going on hybrids....the only damn reason people buy them here is to scam the HOV lanes.....they don't get good milage driving one in a car 80 mph in the HOV lanes...

and yeah...the people preaching clean air and how we need to save the earth adn not use oil should be legally required to sell their Excursions , Hummers, and Suburbans...fly commercial and live in small houses with no fireplaces.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  #9  
Old 03-14-2006, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebenz
We are all part of the problem. We need leadership. Congress can pass a bill to make much more stringent CAFÉ requirements over the next 7 years. Establish tough requirements for each class of vehicle. Gaining efficiency each year until in 2013 when the vehicles with the least and most efficient fuel consumption gets 25% or more improvement. We could do half of that today just by getting rid of the biggest vehicles in each class of consumer vehicles alone. Business vehicles would require proof of utility if they are below minimum consumption.

A fuel consumption tax on license renewal would be applied. The better efficiency the lower the tax down to 0. Use the proceeds to pay to retire older vehicles. At 10 years (2016) mandate that vehicles that don’t get 30 mpg are off the road. At 15 years mandate it at 35 mpg. Business would pass their fuel costs off to the consumer and we get a major revolution in the auto industry for the deal. Could even help dig Detroit out of it’s bankruptcy spirals...

But no, instead of even hinting at that Congress does a rare by-partisan dog and pony show. What the he** is wrong with them?!

there is a huge problem with your fuel tax....


around here only the rich can buy property within 20 miles of DC....average house sales are $600-700K arounf me...$500K gets a teardown property....new houses start at $1.2 million in my neighborhood....do the math and see who can afford those prices...(yeah I bought before they escalated to the stars..( the few appartments in the area start at $1,700 a month for a 1 bedroom) Houses rent for $3,500 and up a month.

that leaves joe average with a 30+ mile one way commute and 2hours each way...between fuel costs and wear and tear of cars people can't afford new efficient ones after they pay godaweful rent and spend 4 hours a day on the road....and these are the people who whould have to pay this tax....so now you can see what I am getting at. There are huge numbers barely able to pay their current property taxes and unable to have an alternative...

I have to fudge the facts about business use of my car due to taxes that I can't afford to pay with the piddly reimbursement I get per mile...my insurance would double taxes would triple...and at $2.79 a gallon for fuel...there is no way I could afford to operate my car at what we get.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  #10  
Old 03-15-2006, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
maybe the hollywood types should give up the limo's and private jets....


and set an example...but naw...they are "special"
Bone,
You think the few "special" hollywood types really can do that much damage? Come on, we are all part of the problem. You included.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
there is a huge problem with your fuel tax....

around here only the rich can buy property within 20 miles of DC....average house sales are $600-700K arounf me...$500K gets a teardown property....new houses start at $1.2 million in my neighborhood....do the math and see who can afford those prices...(yeah I bought before they escalated to the stars..( the few appartments in the area start at $1,700 a month for a 1 bedroom) Houses rent for $3,500 and up a month.

that leaves joe average with a 30+ mile one way commute and 2hours each way...between fuel costs and wear and tear of cars people can't afford new efficient ones after they pay godaweful rent and spend 4 hours a day on the road....and these are the people who whould have to pay this tax....so now you can see what I am getting at. There are huge numbers barely able to pay their current property taxes and unable to have an alternative...
The change would bite us all. Public transportation is a cure. But using an additional system. A fleet of smaller transports, which employ some of the latest tools in routing and organizing. Folks would get near the convenience of a cab and lower cost. This approach would cost the commuter less than half the expense of an average car and further reduce fuel consumption.

Remember that in 7 years about 80% of the vehicles on the road now will typically be retired, and by 10 years the number of retired vehicles jumps to about 90%.
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2006, 12:50 PM
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you guys all act like all 42 gallons of oil in the barrel go into a Suburban's gas tank. They don't. Examine the whole barrel, not just the favorite whipping boy
  #13  
Old 03-15-2006, 01:07 PM
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Excellent point! My whipping boy is Congress for their insistence on blaming the oil companies for profiteering when the failure is due to the government and citizenship. Vehicles represent an element common to all, and also something that’s easier to fix than to replace buildings with more insulation and lower energy consumption. But I don’t mean to limit the discussion. Where are other areas where minor changes can be made?
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebenz
The change would bite us all. Public transportation is a cure. But using an additional system. A fleet of smaller transports, which employ some of the latest tools in routing and organizing. Folks would get near the convenience of a cab and lower cost. This approach would cost the commuter less than half the expense of an average car and further reduce fuel consumption.

Remember that in 7 years about 80% of the vehicles on the road now will typically be retired, and by 10 years the number of retired vehicles jumps to about 90%.
yeah but its the people that can least afford new cars and typilally they are those who run them until they can't be fixed any more. and they grab the cars other people are dumping becasue its all they can afford. The idea of smaller transports has a flaw...around here you would need large parking areas for people to park while they take these (bus and van pools) and property is ungodly expensive...even for the government becasue guess who has to pay for it? and then many of these cost far more that it costs to drive..important for people already on a tight buget. Or the busses don't run to where they need to go....the spokes in a wagon wheel analogy don't fit most commuters trips here. (DC Metro area) Like a lot of things the devil is in the details.
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1971 280SE W108
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  #15  
Old 03-15-2006, 01:23 PM
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Lamo Politicos – Yeah, that they'd choose to rag on the oil companies just shows that they'll do whatever to follow instead of lead the public. They don't know what's up. I t was fully 10 days from the time the UAE ports deal came out before the mention of China owning terminals in LA was reported and that 20% of that ownership is directly from the Red Army still hasn't been talked up.
Fuel is only one of many big problems, but waiting until it's too damn late is the way stuff happens. We should have taken big measures years ago (we did) and stick to them. Still, fuel is cheap – very cheap, so best just plan on ways to take care of yourself because nothing is ever going to happen until it becomes a full blown panic. Even then, until the “powers that be” feel real pain themselves, they'll be in denial. Get a Vespa.
We've been over some version of this so often before that I'll go to the *** response. Nobody is going to believe we really have to get on the boat until the boat is almost out of sight.

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