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  #1  
Old 03-16-2006, 05:05 PM
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The price to pay for voting for a boy king.

"Fiscally responsible", "Compassionate conservative" Republicans??? Huge debts and huge wars (=carnage)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/16/congress.debt.ap/index.html

Senate permits national debt to grow to $9 trillion

Thursday, March 16, 2006; Posted: 12:27 p.m. EST (17:27 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate voted Thursday to allow the national debt to swell to nearly $9 trillion, preventing a first-ever default on U.S. Treasury notes.

The bill passed by a 52-48 vote. The increase to $9 trillion represents about $30,000 for every man, woman and child in the United States. The bill now goes to President Bush for his signature.

The measure allows the government to pay for the war in Iraq and finance Medicare and other big federal programs without raising taxes. It passed hours before the House was expected to approve another $91 billion to fund the war in Iraq and provide more aid to hurricane victims.

The partisan vote also came as the Senate continued debate on a $2.8 trillion budget blueprint for the upcoming fiscal year that would produce a $359 billion deficit for the fiscal year beginning October 1.

The debt limit will increase by $781 billion. It's the fourth such move -- increasing the debt limit by a total of $3 trillion -- since Bush took office five years ago.

The vote came a day after Treasury Secretary John Snow warned lawmakers that action was "critical to provide certainty to financial markets that the integrity of the obligations of the United States will not be compromised."

On Thursday, Treasury postponed next week's auction of three-month and six-month bills pending Senate action, though the move was likely to be quickly reversed given the Senate's vote.

The present limit on the debt is $8.2 trillion. With the budget deficit expected to approach $400 billion for both this year and next, another increase in the debt limit will almost certainly be required next year.

The debt limit increase is an unhappy necessity -- the alternative would be a disastrous first-ever default on U.S. obligations -- that greatly overshadowed a mostly symbolic, weeklong debate on the GOP's budget resolution.
Democrats blast Bush

Democrats blasted the bill, saying it was needed because of fiscal mismanagement by Bush, who came to office when the government was running record surpluses.

"When it comes to deficits, this president owns all the records," said Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada. "The three largest deficits in our nation's history have all occurred under this administration's watch."

Only a handful of Republicans spoke in favor of the measure as a mostly empty Senate chamber conducted a brief debate Wednesday evening.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, said Bush's tax cuts account for just 30 percent of the debt limit increases required during his presidency. Revenue losses from a recession and new spending to combat terrorism and for the war in Iraq are also responsible, he said.

As for the $781 billion increase in the debt limit, Grassley said: "It is necessary to preserve the full faith and credit of the federal government."

Before approving the bill, Republicans rejected by a 55-44 vote an amendment by Max Baucus, D-Montana, to mandate a Treasury study on the economic consequences of foreigners holding an increasing portion of the U.S. debt.

At present, foreign countries, central banks and other institutions hold more than one-fourth of the debt, but that percentage is growing rapidly.

Following the debt limit vote Thursday, the Senate was expected to vote late in the day on the budget plan, a nonbinding measure proposing tax and spending guidelines for the next five years.
Specter seeks spending increases

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, appears poised to win an increase of $7 billion in new and real funding for education and health research. The $7 billion would effectively be used to break Bush's $873 billion budget cap for 2007, which represents the most significant vestige of fiscal discipline remaining in Senate Budget Committee Chairman Judd Gregg's budget.

The underlying Senate budget plan is notable chiefly for dropping Bush's proposed cuts to Medicare and for abandoning his efforts to expand health savings accounts or pass legislation to make permanent his 2001 tax cut bill.

Unlike last year, when Congress passed a bill trimming $39 billion from the deficit through curbs to Medicaid, Medicare and student loan subsidies, Senate GOP leaders have abandoned plans to pass another round of cuts to so-called mandatory programs.

But Gregg's measure re-ignites last year's battle over allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, since it would let Senate leaders bring an ANWR drilling measure to the floor under rules blocking a filibuster by opponents.

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  #2  
Old 03-16-2006, 08:59 PM
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:02 PM
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dude, we can always print more of thos funny notes, no?
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:08 PM
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GROW UP, learn to read more than just headlines:

I find it interesting that the sum total of your post, ericnguyen, that is original is the 20 word heading and initial comment.

When will people in this country grow up and learn to discern fact from conjecture and opinion in news media stories?

1. An example: to quote from your post: "The debt limit increase is an unhappy necessity -- the alternative would be a disastrous first-ever default on U.S. obligations..."

What does the word, "unhappy" have to do with fact? That is conjecture on the part of the person writing the post, whoever it was.

2. ["disastrous first-ever default"] implies that US debt obligations have never been defaulted or come this close to default, which is patently untrue. US Treasury bonds have been in big trouble a few times in our country's history. Not just close to default, but actually in default. (They've always been bailed out)

3. ["When it comes to deficits, this president owns all the records," said Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada.] The senate and house must approve ALL expenditures proposed by the President, unless provided for under the war powers act.

4. [At present, foreign countries, central banks and other institutions hold more than one-fourth of the debt, but that percentage is growing rapidly.] The 'growing rapidly' statement is conjecture. How do you know the percentage is growing rapidly? Does it matter that the percentage is growing rapidly? By what criteria do you define rapidly?

5. [But Gregg's measure re-ignites last year's battle over allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, since it would let Senate leaders bring an ANWR drilling measure to the floor under rules blocking a filibuster by opponents.] What on earth does drilling for oil in the Arctic have to do with the national debt ceiling? Nothing at all, but it's something to tac on to the story that must be important to some one.

All of this is not to post my approval for our government's spending habits, or to suggest that one parties fools are better than another's.

You people better wise up when it comes to slurping down the lies and conjecture and opinion that is spewing forth from the national news media - I don't care if its FOX news, CBS the NY Times or whatever source, they all do this kind of thing.

YOU MUST READ CRITICALLY! Many elected leaders count on the fact that you won't read critically - you even hear them say things like "take my word for it..." when looking to get reelected. That's a joke.

They think we're stupid.
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlssmith
They think we're stupid.
They're right. Collectively, we're the electorate responsible for our last two presidents -- what more do you need to know?
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:21 PM
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That's why paying attention to your rep in the house and your senator is so important. The President doesn't do very much without them, and they are 535 voices. Quite often, if you aren't a stalker type, you can actually talk to your house rep in person. Call them to the carpet for the stuff you think is important, and over which they have some control.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlssmith
That's why paying attention to your rep in the house and your senator is so important. The President doesn't do very much without them, and they are 535 voices. Quite often, if you aren't a stalker type, you can actually talk to your house rep in person. Call them to the carpet for the stuff you think is important, and over which they have some control.
I appreciate the time and effort you put into critiquing that "news" piece. I'm tired of newspeople editorializing and I wish people called them on in more often. I find it especially annoying on TV where voice inflection, body language, and facial expression often convey enormous information that maybe at variance with the words being spoken. That's one reason I prefer to read news. Another is that print media gives the reader the luxury of halting and considering what one is reading rather than skipping along trying to keep-up with a professional news reader.

GS, every president has been elected by the Electoral College, not by popular vote. The Electoral College is controlled by the major parties.

Bot
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
I'm tired of newspeople editorializing and I wish people called them on in more often. I find it especially annoying on TV where voice inflection, body language, and facial expression often convey enormous information that maybe at variance with the words being spoken.
How disgustingly true this is. I've reached my limit with regard to the TV news programs. No more. Stone Phillips stands out in my mind as the most egregious example of this behavior. I wonder if he attends a "school for head tossing" that teaches him to contract his neck muscles in concert with the bull$hit that he speaks.
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  #9  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
GS, every president has been elected by the Electoral College, not by popular vote. The Electoral College is controlled by the major parties.

Bot
You're right -- the pubic is blameless. No reason to vote...
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlssmith
You people better wise up when it comes to slurping down the lies and conjecture and opinion that is spewing forth from the national news media - I don't care if its FOX news, CBS the NY Times or whatever source, they all do this kind of thing.

YOU MUST READ CRITICALLY! Many elected leaders count on the fact that you won't read critically - you even hear them say things like "take my word for it..." when looking to get reelected. That's a joke.

They think we're stupid.
As a complement to that fine analysis i offer the following:

The Buffoon and the Countryman

At a country fair there was a Buffoon who made all the people
laugh by imitating the cries of various animals. He finished off
by squeaking so like a pig that the spectators thought that he had
a porker concealed about him. But a Countryman who stood by said:
"Call that a pig s squeak! Nothing like it. You give me till
tomorrow and I will show you what it's like." The audience
laughed, but next day, sure enough, the Countryman appeared on the
stage, and putting his head down squealed so hideously that the
spectators hissed and threw stones at him to make him stop. "You
fools!" he cried, "see what you have been hissing," and held up a
little pig whose ear he had been pinching to make him utter the
squeals.


Men often applaud an imitation and hiss the real thing.


-Aesop
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2006, 12:08 AM
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The talking news heads want to be politicians, the politicians want to be movie stars, the people in my office want to win the lottery, and so on it goes.

But, one thing is certain, power, of the type certain people desire, is more and more vested in "elected" leaders. After all why would a man or woman, an industry leader say, Governor, what's his name in New Jersey, after making a gigantic fortune in Wall Street, why would he give all that up, spend more than 60 fortunes, --To become more powerful? Yes. Gee, most guys would just take some viagra and get to work...

Be sure that they don't want you to watch them too closely, and for the most part the media heads, the Stone Phillips head shakers in the world, don't want you to watch too closely either.

As for elections, they are not all they're cracked up to be sometimes, but it's the best that humans can do. Just keep track of your local and state election politicians. Most folks don't even know who those people are.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2006, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
You're right -- the pubic is blameless. No reason to vote...
now you're thinking..
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2006, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlssmith
5. [But Gregg's measure re-ignites last year's battle over allowing oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, since it would let Senate leaders bring an ANWR drilling measure to the floor under rules blocking a filibuster by opponents.] What on earth does drilling for oil in the Arctic have to do with the national debt ceiling? Nothing at all, but it's something to tac on to the story that must be important to some one.
Much of your critique is valid but this one has some truth to it. Pro ANWR drillers point to our huge outlays for foreign oil as a major factor in our trade imbalance which affects our borrowing in all sorts of ways.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2006, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
Much of your critique is valid but this one has some truth to it. Pro ANWR drillers point to our huge outlays for foreign oil as a major factor in our trade imbalance which affects our borrowing in all sorts of ways.
Of course it has truth in it, that's why it is called, "News" and not, "Fantasy."

Good propaganda will be rich in facts while poor in truth.

B
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Of course it has truth in it, that's why it is called, "News" and not, "Fantasy."

Good propaganda will be rich in facts while poor in truth.

B
You mean like asserting that the American public bears no responsibility for electing the President? Well no, I guess I see where that's different...

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