Tell me about Wyoming
 

I've been thinking since long before Katrina about relocating away from the heat, humidity, and cracked streets of New Orleans. My criteria:

1) Not crowded
2) Low humidity in summer, and preferably less than 90 deg. F. on average
3) Has 4 seasons. I can handle snow fine, having lived in Denver for 4 years. Unlike rain and flood, snow doesn't come inside your car and ruin the electronics.
4) Not too expensive (and I warn you, I'm cheap)
5) No hurricanes or earthquakes
6) I couldn't care less about schools

Yesterday's NY Times ran an article saying that Wyoming is poised for something of a boom, thanks to high prices of natural gas, to the point where they are doing away with sales tax on groceries -- this, on top of having no personal or corporate income tax. I've done some research, and Laramie (elevation 7100 feet) sounds nice. It's the only town in the state with a 4-year college, and that's my current field, office manager for a private college here.

Anybody know anything about the place? Friendly people? Air conditioning in the summer? Cost of living? Quirks?

Ask Frank X. Morris about Payson, AZ.

Based on your criteria, Wyoming might be a good place for you.

I understand there are also a lot of fun things to do there if you are into winter sports.

I will say that when I was a freshman in high school I flew over part of the state in a small plane and it seemed the land was all scarred and torn up; this was evidently due to people mining for oil shale.

It was rather ugly, but I should think you'd never know from the ground. And the beautiful parts of the state probably more than make up for it anyway.

Nebraska sucks and Wyoming blows. There's a small town about 50 miles north of Cheyenne that was offering building lots for $100.

I've only been to Cheyenne (back when us college kids would ride North to drink liquor at 19). Low taxes is very enticing, just make sure the other cost of living expense don't outweigh that (like higher property taxes, etc.).

The only drawback is that there are no MB dealers around for miles......

Guess you could help them rape the landscape and work in a coal strip mine:(
If you appreciated solitude, and could be content with entertaining yourself with the eclectic beauty of the state, you would be fine.

That's a culture change NOLA to WY

I haven't been to Laramee but my wife's family is from eastern WY and we go up there a couple times a year. Yes it's cheap and the people are friendly. In the town she is from green fees are $7 and it's on the honor system. You put your money in a lockbox on the first hole. It will get a couple heat waves in the summer but generally you won't need AC.

It's probably 180 degrees different from N.O. but based on your criteria you might like it.

lots of empty
 

I grew up in Huntley, Wyoming (south of Torrington, on the east end of the state) when the population was 8 people (its now 1). My mom was the postmaster and my dad the Union Pacific station agent. I went to a consolidated high school in a class of 13 (6 boys and 7 girls). I would go back in a heartbeat. I would not trade the experience of growing up with a bunch of homesteaders, ranchers, and dry-land farmers for anything in the world. It is a great place, but if you need company, don't bother.

I think the way you approach it is to pull a camper up there and work as a “boomer”. That work will be out in the sticks anyway, and if it doesn't suit you, hook up the ole Airstream to your PU Truck (necessary) and move on. I think you'll be in the nineties, but if not your still at an altitude where you'll really feel the sun if you're out in it. The western part is fab for the outdoors. The women are nice and the cheeseburgers are handmade.

sounds like where my father in law is from, Albin. There is no there there.

Albin is big
 

it has paved streets (2 or 3 the last time i was there). We used to play them in basketball....they used to beat us a lot.

LOL, yeah, it's a bustling metropolis. Census says it's 120 people, I think they are counting the dogs too. My wifes grandfather used to own the cafe, had a couple pool tables in the basement. it was supposedly the place to be on Saturday night.:D

my mother in law is from Pine Bluffs, another big city

People from Wyoming might think Iowa is too crowded, but to me it's blissfully empty (I lived in NYC for a few years)

I put a plug in for Iowa because there isn't much traffic, even in bigger cities and there's quite a bit to do, but you can still live out of town in a quiet place relatively cheaply.

Pine Bluffs
 

played us as well.....happy to say we used to beat them regularly....but they had much better looking cheerleaders than we did......

Water is an impediment to growth in Wyoming, lack of water, that is. Land ownership is another, about 5% of the land is on the open market. 95% belongs to various government entities, mining companies, and the railroads.

I lived in two locations there for a total of about 7 months. It is not like wherever you are from. Many people move there, many move away again.

One day we drove 246 miles without crossing a paved road. When you leave a town, make sure the fuel tanks are full. Towns that are within 100 miles of each other are close. When you get to the next town on the map it may be a town and maybe just crossroads. If it has a gas station it likely has only one and it may or may not be open.

The capital city and biggest city is Cheyenne and it has less than 100K people. Many intersections in town have no signs and no clear way to determine who has right of way. It is not like wherever you are from.

They organized a fake gold-rush to get enough population to become a state. How is that for a conspiracy?

We have lived there twice so far and will be back. We like places that are different.

Iowa, hey?
 

Sounds good to me, though I like mountains and foothills, and I expect Iowa's sort of low on those things. Hot summers, too, but at least they'd be short and A/C's available, right? How about tornadoes? Tell me more.

And El Presidente, I know, the lack of MB dealers in Wyoming is a turn-off. When I lived in CO and belonged to MBCA, I was startled to see that WY was included in the same region -- it didn't have its own chapter. The independent who worked on my 420SEL swore he had a lady who drove her W123 diesel from Cheyenne to Denver twice a year, for him to do major services on it. Now that's loyalty . . . or desperation!

As for the culture change from NO to Laramie (or Iowa, or Montana, for that matter), I'm ready. I've lived here most of my life, and the place is just swirling down faster and faster. Let's face it: The levees aren't ready, and probably won't be even marginal for years; I've seen all that appeals to me in SE Louisiana; I don't drink and I don't eat crawfish unless the meat's already in a pie; and I'm sick to death of the climate.

Time for a change. Laramie is one idea; I'm open to suggestions!

Northeast Iowa is stunningly beautiful as you approach the Mississippi River. There are many small towns and the parks and open spaces are quite nice. The summers get warm, but to me it's always comfortable, since the nights get cool, except for just a few. Winter can get damned cold, lowest this year was 19 below zero. January hovers around zero most years, though this year was actually warmer than usual.

There is lots of water here too. Maybe not as wet as NO or Florida, but more than 30 inches of rain per year. I've never watered my lawn and never will - some people do, but it's not really necessary. In fact there is an industry devoted to draining water from farm fields so that crops can grow more easily. There are many small colleges here, some in surprisingly wonderful towns. I do not lock my car and I leave the keys in it. I don't lock the house either. My town is only 300 people.

You know, maybe you would like eastern Oregon. Huge swaths of it fit your criteria nicely except that the temperature will get over 90 there. It is the high desert, and near the Cascades you can witness the leftovers of massive volcanic activity many moons ago...and I bet there's a Benz dealership in Bend, although I haven't looked that up.

Much of eastern Oregon still fits the 1890 definition of frontier land, which was based on population. In large parts there are probably many more juniper bushes than people. If you move there you should make sure you like the smell of juniper first.

As for the volcanoes, as long as you don't live next to one the worst thing that would probably happen is getting a couple of inches of ash on your car...that's what happened to my paernts when we lived in Federal Way, WA when St. Helens blew up.

WY is a RED, RED, RED state, it's empty, empty, empty (the least popolous state below canada.) a plugin for your car in the winter is advisable. beautiful mountains in the west. kinda boring otherwise. peeps seemed friendly but a bit on the rough side. frontier land for sure. many, many tourists near yellowstone and the tetons (jacksnon hole) get a pu truck and a shotgun. :D

I have to drive to Laramie and stay overnight for meetings about once every two months. It's one of the most depressing towns I've been in. Yes, the University's there, but it doesn't have the cultural life of a major school (or of a small, bucolic liberal arts college). Everything's gray, the housing stock is ancient and generally dilapidated, and the wind can drive you nuts. Laramie's a plains town, not a mountain town like Jackson. Also, due to the coal and CBM (coalbed methane) boom, I understand that apartment rents and housing prices aren't as cheap as they used to be. Surprisingly for a college town, the hotel/motel stock is mostly ancient - we were high-fiving each other when the Hampton Inn opened in December. There aren't any great restaurants. All in all, I can't wait to leave everytime I'm there.

On the upside, taking the cutoff to Fort Collins takes only about an hour or so, you might be able to get your car serviced there, if not then Denver's only another hour or so.

I worked as a surveyor in and around Cody and Meeteetse, WY in the late 1970's. I loved the state and I loved the work. There were so few people that after you lived there a while you were probably never more than 3 or 4 degrees of separation from anybody else. The good side of that is that people tend to be a lot more open and honest about everything. Compare that with dense, large human populations (like NOLA) in which people tend to be more much more careful in conversations with people they don't know. The downside (for some folks) is that within a few months to a year or so everybody will know everything about you. There is no anonymity.

Trout fishing was great. I think hunting would be a lot of fun but I never had time. Where I worked I often saw pronghorns at under 300 yds and elk and mule deer were farm pests.

You live in a warm, humid and subtropical city. Acclimation for you would involve a couple of months of cracked and chapped lips and other soft tissue. Nosebleeds for swampfolks moved to WY in winter are common.

I made friends with folks who worked for me. It was a different relationship from out East where I have friendly relations with employees but they are not my friends. Not sure I understand the difference, exactly. The employer/employee relationship was more socially equal even if hierarchically separate.

I loved my time there and often regret having accepted a promotion and transfer.

B

I grew up in Wyoming, and have been to pretty much all of it and I can say that you've already received some pretty good advice. I can't (won't) quote it all but I want to add to what people have already said:

I exactly agree that Laramie is a depression inducing town. I was born there and I've been there alot since and I hated it everytime.

If you are thinking of moving to Cheyenne take the easy way out.

Expect any and all mechanics to look at your Benz, scratch their head and say "you aint from around here are ya?"

If an intersection is uncontrolled the person on the right has the right of way.

I have family near Casper (and graduated college there, Yippy!) and all indications are that it is just going to blow up (boom) like hell in the next 20 or so years. I'll believe it when I see it.

For the love of god, stay the hell out of the mormon valley (north central) if you value human contact, unless of course you are mormon.

Remove any Kerry bumper stickers long before you hit the state line. They don't care what your viewpoint is unless it benefits ranching, oil, or mining.

Most kidding aside if I were going to go back I'd seriously look at the Buffalo-Sheridan area (northeast). Some of the most beautiful country in the world, the best outdoor availability in the state, relatively close to Billings, friendly people, good CHEAP golf,

Alright, more specifically:

Not crowded? ha.....you will be completely amazed as what passes for rush hour (rush moment, as we called it)

No humidity in the summer

It does only have two seasons. Summer, and cold-as-hell-and-windy.

It might be the cheapest place left in the civilized world.

Don't recall any hurricanes growing up....but some parts of the state are somewhat seismologically active. I'd look into the Yellowstone caldera disaster thing.

The schools are the best part! Wyoming spends a crap-load of money on their schools. Even in my time we wanted for nothing as it came to school equipment and supplies. Our wood, machine, and auto shops were some of the most well equipped I have ever seen.

I really miss the friendliness of the people. Everyone waves, especially on the road to the dump. A warning though; if you are not friendly it WILL be noticed, and you will already be under scrutiny for being from out of state (although not for very long).

You can get AC. We never had it but some folk did.

The cost of living is quite good.

All in all, I highly recommend certain parts of the state (http://www.sheridanwyoming.org/index.php) as long as...
You are married
You or your spouse is not from there
You don't mind bitingly cold wind everyday in the winter
Your kids don't mind being slightly bored (with the upside of having next to no crime)

I'll probably think of more to add as my sleepless night wears on.

Wait! I thought of more.

This is a big word of warning because it is completely taken for granted by me and my family....

You know the convenience of those 24 hour grocery stores, pharmacies, fast food joints, and convenience stores? Kiss 'em goodbye. Everything is closed by 11 or long before, with a few exceptions.

You like fancy restaurants? Hope not.

Did I mention the wind? (I did want to add that the wind is not as bad as you get further north. please note:not as bad)

You know, growing up I hated the place......freakin' hated it. Couldn't wait to leave. And now I look back and realize that except for a serious lack of women (who look like women) we had it really damn good.

Oh, and prepare yourself for a whole lot of sheep jokes.

Ha, you ever been there to see the raping of this land? Or the reclamation afterward?

Thanks for all the input
 

As my (firmly stuck in New Orleans) lady friend, Miss Linda, likes to say: "Eeg."

Pxland, something about the lack of convenience stores, of women who *look* like women, and of MB mechanics makes the prospect sound dim. Sheridan looks cool, though.

I visited Cheyenne on a holiday in 1999 or 2000. Everything was closed except for the wind. Somehow I can't see it or Laramie becoming the next Santa Fe. If I could earn a *really* good living in Wyoming -- but the job listings at UW look pretty thin.

Botnst, when I moved to Denver in '97, I became aware of the dryness pretty quickly. Chap-Stick and sunscreen, drinking more water, slowing down my running speed, and staying out of the hot sun took care of most of it. It was great to drive around on a weekend morning in July and not start sweating and sticking to your car seat until nearly 10:30. I loved the Denver climate, but the hordes of people, most of whom thought of A/C in the 98 F. summers as "some newfangled fad from back East in Noo Yawk City," wore me down.

Eastern Oregon, hey? Hmmm. . . .

i've also heard good things about Corvallis, OR.

Some parts of Wyoming appeal to me. The North Platte river, just north of the Colorado border is a great section to paddle. Vidauvoo (sp) has some rock formations that suck you into the very being of the earth.
Also don't underestimate the openmindedness of the people of Wyoming. The Catholic priest in Glendo was stripping his cowboy parishoners naked, hanging them hogtied upside down in the basement and whipping them before brushing his beard up against their genitals. All this to purge them of their sins. You'd be hard pressed to find that kind of broad mindedness even in San Francisco.

What? Your catholic priests don't do that?

Seriously though, I grew up 20 minutes from here. When did this happen?

It was a few years ago. None of the adult men complained about it, but an underage boy was in the group. After some time, he talked about it and abuse charges were brought against the priest. By that time, the priest had moved on and was living in Ohio I think.

Here's a lind with a story about it:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:q6c9xvSp3nYJ:www.topix.net/city/glendo-wy/+glendo+abuse+catholic+priest+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

Wyoming huh? Bring lots and lots of kites because if you're anywhere southeast of Jackson (which is pretty much the rest of the state, outside of Yellowstone) the wind blows pretty much every day. And I don't mean a breeze - I mean it blows. And I don't just mean often, I mean pretty much every day of the year. I would agree with a previous poster (the Beav from Corn Valley) who mentioned that you might want to consider eastern Oregon.

No truer statement has been made. I bought my iceboat (which is a converted landsailer) from a man who used to manage an airport in Wyoming, who actually had two of them for sailing on the airport runways. This says a lot about Wyoming. If your mind turns to landsailing, it must be really windy. And if your main thought as an airport manager is, 'What can I use this large expanse of concrete for?" there's not a lot of traffic at the airport.

Kind of like here in the Smokie Mtns of NC ! Nice summers and easy winters!:) Short of folks with sour pusses!! :) :) :) :)

Smokie

Sure. :rolleyes:

Why don't you play fair and tell the truth. That priest was a sick human being who does not represent Catholic priests. The Catholic church has had a special "police unit" that does nothing but ferret out bad priests.

Comparing the actions of a lone wolf priest to the depravity of San Fransisco is pretty lame. After all, the AIDS epidemic was started in the infamous bathhouses of San Fransicko.

Get real Kerry.

I worked as a surveyor out of Cody and down to Thermopolis during 1976-1977. One of the finest places I've ever lived. I'd go back if I didn't have such a sweet life right here.

Where did I write that this particular priest represented all Catholic priests? You're projecting your own suppositions onto my writings.

I agree there's a big difference between the behaviors. One set of acts were done for pleasure, the other for purity. Which is more depraved is a topic for an interesting debate.

As I recall, AIDS patient #1 in North America was from Montreal.

I didn't say that you intended to represent this particular priest as representing all Catholic priests. YOU are doing the projecting of suppositions. With all of the Catholic bashing that is going on today I wouldn't want a unbiased person to read your comment and get the wrong idea about Catholic proests. It was a isolated incident in Wy.

The leading reason AIDS first spread in the USA was the unprotected gay sex in San Fransisco bathhouses(sp). It's a fact. Unless, open minded PBS was wrong.

beings nobody has brought it up yet i'd check out the black hills of south dakota.S.D. has no state income tax,there are lots of ski areas out there if your into that,rapid city should have an MB dealer,believe the whole state doesn't even have a million people and about a 1/4 of those are in sioux falls.and half are near the eastern border with minn.heck take a trip up to mt rushmore and check it out,if nothing else it's worth the trip to see.also i live in northwestern iowa,lived here all my life and love it.we're 2 1/2 hours to omaha or des moines.and about 5 hours to minneapolis,or kansas city. i cover about a 1/4 of the state and believe me road rage up here is what happens after you peg a deer.but thats usually limited to right around the time the crops come out of the fields.mid sept-dec. i'm in storm lake we have one of the top small universities in the country,they were the first to give out laptops to all the students (about 1200).mb dealers in 3 directions about 125 each way.3600 acre lake right next to the campus.5 golf courses within 12 miles,one of the best in the state 2 miles out of town

You don't seriously expect anyone to pass up a story like that do you? Not even Monty Python on speed could come up with such a juicy tidbit.

Had an acquaintence in Denver who sold out and bought a ranch on the river that runs around the south side of the Black Hills. I haven't been there yet but just south of there runs the Niobrara River which is one of my favorite places on earth. (Nebraska no less).

daaaamn 12 canoe's ,jeez i thought i was overdoing it with 2.friend of mine canoed the niobrara last summer over by valentine,said it was awesome to say the least,gonna go again this year,and i think i'll be joining them.

The section east of Valentine is really nice. I prefer the section just east of Gordon where the river is smaller and less travelled. However it is completely surrounded by private property and there are lots of wire fences across the river. I think there is one outfitter near Gordon now, so that section is beginning to get some more traffic.
There's a surprising historical marker on the Gordon section commemorating the spot where the US Cavalry burned a wagon train which had entered Indian territory. The only instance I know off where US troops protected Indian property rights.

self explanatory...

The best 9 hole golf course in the world, hands-down, bar none, without a doubt top of the list, that you've never heard of is in Hot Springs, SD.

The black hills would be a great choice. Slightly more progressive than Wyo. you just don't want to be there come August (is the rally really as bad as they say in regards to impact across the Black Hills?).

Haven't been around in a while but this one is particularly interesting to me. I lived in the town of Laramie for about a year and here's my take.

The depression inducing quote earlier on is quite valid for some. There were (when I was there) 23 drive through liquor stores in a town with less than 20k people when the university is in session. They were in trouble for counting students as full time residents a few years back to get more government kick downs. I have never been in so many bar fights in my life. I am a peace loving brother to the highest degree, but if one was out at night at one of the many, many bars, it is almost certain you will encounter some sort of confrontation that will escalate to a physical level given any provocation. You can be thankful that there really aren't any shootings and problems are resolved with fisticuffs, but this seems to happen right after the first derogatory comment is made. There is rampant alcoholism and poverty throughout the town. There is very little to do most of the year as the climate is so fiercely cold. I witnessed a snow storm on the 4th of july. The winter temperatures are generally colder than what is seen in Alaska. The winds average 40 mph all day. I have felt my eyeballs freeze in the sockets. You are at 7200', surrounded by 13000' peaks (mountain valley). There's really only two ways in and out of town, and as you must go over the peaks, inclement weather will often shut you out from any outside contact for days, even weeks at a time. The roads are not plowed or salted, so make sure you've got some very nice snow tires. You'll leave them on most of the year. Restaurants will close down during these periods of snow as the trucks can't get in to deliver ingredients. The fruit you buy at grocery stores will last a day or two at best. During these blocked off periods, the drinking and fighting seem to get worse. There are not many women in Laramie, and the quality pretty low as well. I suggest importing talent. The job market is almost non-existent and most of the small businesses have been shut down by a monolith Wal-Mart near the university. There's not a lot of good recreational plants around either:beatnik:

Ok, now the good things. I did have quite a bit of fun living in Wyoming. The scenery around the town is amazing. There are so many amazing, unpopulated mountain roads to drive, year round skiing, rock climbing, etc, just minutes away. Hiking is incredible. Fort Collins Colorado is less than as hour away and one of the hippest towns in the nation (lots of good recreational plants there). There are countless state parks within an hour of the town, Misheewauka valley amphitheater close to Fort C. Of all the bars, we truly enjoyed the Ranger in Laramie. Huge standup shuffleboard table and dirt cheap to drink (as long as you had money from elsewhere) and this one delicious bartendress. Still pretty rough place (this is the wild west after all).

You will never see so many pickup trucks in one town. Lots of cowboy hats. Not a lot of tolerance for any culture that isn't Laramie culture. This place is years behind any civilized town in America. All in all, I had a blast out there, but I would probably shoot myself after 5 years or so of it. I guess it's a question of perspective. The only way to really know is to visit. Stay at the Ranger (they've got a hotel connected to the bar).