Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2006, 07:57 PM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Passion of the Christ

Tivo picked up Passion so I decided to watch it and did not make it too far the brutality was worse than Kill Bill. How accurate was Passion regarding the Jew's and torture methods used on Jesus?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-23-2006, 09:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedMech
Tivo picked up Passion so I decided to watch it and did not make it too far the brutality was worse than Kill Bill. How accurate was Passion regarding the Jew's and torture methods used on Jesus?
That's something along the lines of a "She said/He said" thing. There are no surviving written manuscripts that show evidence of anything that happened, or to say that Jesus even existed. FWIW, I am not saying that Jesus didn't exist as a person; my opinion is that he did... but it's that the earliest written evidence; The Christian Holy Bible, had begun to be written only 30 years after Jesus' crucifiction. As far as the torture, I beleive the film clearly shows that the torture was done by the Romans. The Romans, who were not Christians then (obviously..duh), governed Judea at the time. The movie's argument is that the Roman governor Pilate, listened to the opinion of the Jews (Jesus was also Jewish and part of the same populous, btw). They were mad because he was preeching a different religion. He decided to bestow upon him the most disgraceful form of death by Roman standards... crucifiction. Wether or not the Jews decided to castigate one of their own due to their own law... I guess we'll never truly know. It does seem conceivable though... but who really cares?
__________________
----------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:17 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,538
I saw The Passion of the Christ when it was in the theaters, and I didn't enjoy watching it either.

It was like 90 minutes of watching Jesus get whipped and beat to a bloody pulp. Not the kind of entertainment I usually enjoy.
__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:37 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
I went there with the "little sister" and the wife. She is 16 now. Back then, she even knew that if someone lost that much blood they would probably have been dead. Worst waste of money I had for the last few years. I shoulda waited for it to come to the dollar cinema but that was one of the things the "lil" wanted to see. Just a rehash of the same story with more beatings.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:53 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
i had heard some about it, and was pretty skeptical about it as it was so popular with the right wingers.

then i saw a small part of a show showing the filming of it with the "jesus" actor with the shredded flesh on his back and i knew i was not interested in watching a feature length film with a lot of that in it.

it has totally changed my opinion of mel gibson. i used to really like him but i now think him to be a racist.

sorry.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-23-2006, 10:55 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
i had heard some about it, and was pretty skeptical about it as it was so popular with the right wingers.

then i saw a small part of a show showing the filming of it with the "jesus" actor with the shredded flesh on his back and i knew i was not interested in watching a feature length film with a lot of that in it.

it has totally changed my opinion of mel gibson. i used to really like him but i now think him to be a racist.

sorry.

tom w
In what way a racist? It was just a money making ploy. Just like the Blair Witch Project I and II.
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-23-2006, 11:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Port Coquitlam, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 160
I have a differnet opinion...

Hey everyone. I thought the movie was very well done. Why? I liked that the movie was done in the hebrew language and it had subtitles. I thought the character who played Jesus was realistic. According to the bible, what he went through was terrible and the movie showed just that. Much better than the sugar coated versions we get in bible school (if you went) which many times showed Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes and very little detail about his crucifiction (which when you are 8 - 10, you don't need to know the bloody details). Remember, he was jewish for Christs sake (pardon the pun). I thought the devil (who looked a bit like the villian in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure) was good, especially at the beginning in the Garden. Yes it was violent, yes it was gross at times, but quite convincing and well put together.

Shaun
__________________
1992 Pearl Black 500E (08/91) SOLD
1997 White C36 AMG (T-Boned by Chevy truck)
2003 Silver C32 AMG (lease due, traded up)
2002 Pontiac Montana VisionSOLD
2007 Volvo XC90 3.2
2005 E55 AMG (newest ride)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-24-2006, 01:46 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
Renaissances Dude
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 33,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
i had heard some about it, and was pretty skeptical about it as it was so popular with the right wingers.

then i saw a small part of a show showing the filming of it with the "jesus" actor with the shredded flesh on his back and i knew i was not interested in watching a feature length film with a lot of that in it.

it has totally changed my opinion of mel gibson. i used to really like him but i now think him to be a racist.

sorry.

tom w
Agreed. I liked Braveheart a lot (I'm Scaw-ish, ain' I?!) but Mel flirts with the deep end a bit much for my taste. I have great respect for what Jesus did and went through. I don't need to see a blood and gore fest to enhance that.

Ever read the Last Temptation of Christ? The movie was ummm, OK but the book is amazing. It was written by Kazantzakis, the guy who wrote Zorba the Greek, also way, way better than the film. I'm glad I read the book first in both cases. The last chapter of Last Temptation was one of the most amazing experiences I've had from reading. It's a horrible cliche, but.... I felt like I was on acid, man...
__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Last edited by cmac2012; 05-24-2006 at 10:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-24-2006, 03:23 AM
MTI's Avatar
MTI MTI is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 10,626
Why did NBC pull "The Book of Daniel?" I really liked the Jesus character in that one.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-24-2006, 05:45 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
i had heard some about it, and was pretty skeptical about it as it was so popular with the right wingers.

then i saw a small part of a show showing the filming of it with the "jesus" actor with the shredded flesh on his back and i knew i was not interested in watching a feature length film with a lot of that in it.

it has totally changed my opinion of mel gibson. i used to really like him but i now think him to be a racist.

sorry.

tom w
Do you know what this little rant makes you?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-24-2006, 07:59 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
yes.

i am a person who does not require miracles to want to live by the principles that jesus offered us. i also dont believe that believing in evolution is in any way a conflict with believing in those principles. my mom probably would call me an athiest but i call myself a christian. perhaps an agnostic practicing christian life disciplines.

and i too liked braveheart and patriot. actually i felt that patriot had a lot of things in it that rang true.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Last edited by t walgamuth; 05-24-2006 at 08:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-24-2006, 08:30 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,449
I saw one review that said it was like watching a two hour snuff film.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-24-2006, 08:36 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
yes.

i am a person who does not require miracles to want to live by the principles that jesus offered us. i also dont believe that believing in evolution is in any way a conflict with believing in those principles. my mom probably would call me an athiest but i call myself a christian. perhaps an agnostic practicing christian life disciplines.

and i too liked braveheart and patriot. actually i felt that patriot had a lot of things in it that rang true.

tom w
You still don't get it. Liberals can be bigots, it is taboo to say that but it is the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-24-2006, 09:07 AM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
Contrarian checking in.

I thought "Patriot" almost sucked.

The good darkies loved the massa and the massa loved dem darkies. Right.

Notice how clean and well-dressed everybody was? The horses were all beautiful and so were the women.

The best part of that movie was the debate in the state legislature. 2nd best was Gibson & sons killin' the redcoats. Eeee-Haw! Downhill from there.

Concerning "Passion," I thought it was excellent story telling. Gibson combined the 4 gospels and Catholic dogma into an fine piece of artistic propaganda. Why propaganda? We're still talking about it, right?

The primary language spoken in the film was Aramaic, not Hebrew. Also I understand period Greek and Latin were spoken. The use of authentic languages set an interesting mood from the beginning. And to me, th ebest part o fthe movie was the first scene in which jesus is praying to God and the androgynous Satan asks Jesus to be reasonable and not suffer for what the people are doing. I think that argument, whether you believe in Satan, God and Jesus or believe nothing at all, was an excellent portrayal of an individual working through an important moral dilemma.

The second best scene was the dialogue between Jesus and Pilate. That was the perfect portrayal of a bureaucrat faced with a moral dilemma. Pilate chose the path of any good bureaucrat--better that an innocent man should die then to incite violence in a rebellious, subjugated population.

The portrayal of Jesus' scourging could have been less graphic and still carried the story. however, let's remember that the Romans really did flay, scourge, burn, slice and dice prisoners before execution. It wasn't mandatory, but it was common. Pilate was an extension of the absolute ruler of the Roman Empire. In that position he could impose on local non-Romans whatever punishment he wanted on whatever scale he thought necessary. Could Jesus have survived it? Heck, I don't know. Some people die of fright and some people sustain tremendous damage and keep going from will or from God knows what motivation. I think it's plausible that he could survive that kind of thrashing.

In an artistic sense, I think the best scene was the pieta -- Jesus dead in Mary's arms. That's one of art's most enduring subjects (http://www.statue.com/michelangelo-pieta.html) and Gibson addressed it with a classical interpretation. the colors reminded me of El Greco's pieta (http://www.jssgallery.org/Other_Artists/El_Greco/Pieta.htm).

Will I see it again? No. Like "Schindler's List" or "Sophie's Choice", movies that effectively interpret brutal or cruel tragedy are a one-time event for me.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-24-2006, 10:07 AM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackE55
No one answered MM's question, well except Bot was getting to it.


Scourging and crucifxion was Roman.

Interesting to see how this thread turns -- just answer the damn question!!
Oh golly, there was a point, wasn't there?

Here's an exchange that might illuminate.

Pliny the Younger was governor of Pontus/Bithynia from 111-113 AD. We have a whole set of exchanges of his letters with the emperor Trajan on a variety of administrative political matters. These two letters are the most famous, in which Pliny encounters Christianity for the first time.

Pliny, Letters 10.96-97


Pliny to the Emperor Trajan
It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offenses it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offenses, or only the offenses associated with the name are to be punished.

Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.


Trajan to Pliny
You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously posted accusations ought to have no place in any prosecution. For this is both a dangerous kind of precedent and out of keeping with the spirit of our age.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page