son of new rule thread - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #1 07-09-2006, 11:16 AM

the third from last post was troubling in its thoughts. i have a big problem with any person degrading anybody else. and i dont ever want to either. fred rogers felt this way and i agree totally.

i never knew how old hattie was nor what he did for a living, nor how many shoes he has worn out, and it never has crossed my mind to check.

there is a grain of a valid concern though. this forum is a significant element of many people's lives. when a moderator has absolute power over folks with no appeal possible it is a heavy thing to hang over our heads.

there really should be a democratic way to deal with folks who think they are being treated unfairly.

i don't know how it should work, but there is an old saying..."power corrupts... and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

it is something to think about.

tom w

Lebenz · #2 07-09-2006, 11:40 AM

I agree with the comments above. The rule ultimately singles out a few people. A personal attack is not a reasonable nor a useful response to the situation. However the rule itself comes across as an attack. If the desire is to limit the use of a word, perhaps adding it to a list of profanity words that are published as "****" might work, but the problem here is that the forum software is typically not sensitive to whole words. Meaning, as example, if one were to specify a certain type of mushroom, the forum would brand it right along with another word for dung. The same thing would happen for the word "American".

Any way you size it up, word censorship is not a good thing. It is, in fact highly un-American. In this case it is also silly.

Botnst · #3 07-09-2006, 01:59 PM

Here's one perspective, FWIW.

The owner of this website is in business to make money, not provide a free speech forum. The only reason that this O.D. forum exists is to let off the pressure from the actual, serious threads dealing with the whole reason for having this website. If the owners could offer this website without digressions from the subject of M-B I have absolutely no doubt they would do so. This OD has got to be a net of zero for the owners except as a relief valve from the important threads.

I have no doubt that most of us came to OD in a sort of back-door way. We were looking for parts and car advice and liked the service and generous support from almost universally good-natured, often extremely competent mechanics. We accidentally drifted into OD and were hooked.

So in the greater scheme of all things mercedesshop.com, we are a pretty unwholesome after-thought as far as return-on-investment goes. Mostly we're a bunch of whiney PITA's who get our little feelings hurt and complain. Not much sales traffic in that.

Essentially what I am trying to say is that this is a for-profit venture. It is their mission in life to make money, not to provide a free-speech forum. It is there football, their yard, and their rules of play. If I don't like the rules or if they give me the old heave-ho for my pretentious pontifications or low humor, well, it's their dime.

Bot

PS Hatt is new at being a mod. I don't think his salary is as much as a Bengalese beggar. He's going to make some judgment calls with which we disagree. So what? Get over it and stay or move on. There are plenty of free-speech sites and other car fora that are really open to less civility.

GermanStar · #4 07-09-2006, 02:11 PM

Can we add 'Nadin' to the banned list in deference to our northern neighbors ?

cmac2012 · #5 07-09-2006, 02:13 PM

I agree with a lot of this. Sometimes a 19 year old can see things more clearly than an older fart who is stuck in his ways. Look at the way we revere babies for their spontaneous wisdom. Every age in life has its strength.

A movie I liked years ago, scripted by Jules Feiffer, "Little Murders," had an interesting line. They were talking about protest and dissatisfaction with America, and one guy said, "It's not a good idea to try to tear down something unless you're sure you won't miss it when it's gone." In spite of my differences with much of our foreign policy (domestic too), fact is we have a good experiment going on here. I've heard accounts from people who got caught up in the "judicial" systems of other countries, such as Turkey and China, and they said they gained new appreciation for the protections afforded us by our constitution and general public civility.

I try not to insult people I'm debating with (too much anyway

) because you imperil the chances for any progress with the both of you. If terms like "Merkin" chase away potential participants in MS Forum in general, Bill Woods has a right to complain that his bottom line is being injured. Plus, Hat is right: if your argument needs words or pharses that insult, it's an argument that needs some work.

GermanStar · #6 07-09-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

If any of ya'll have a beef with the dislike of the "word" take it up with me. I am the one who posted back at Zeit for his comment originally. I do take offense to the term as it has been used. I am proud to be American and the way it has been written before was as a slang expression to degrade Americans. I'm sure some folks here would not appreciate if I referred to jews as kikes or blacks as ******s or hispanics as spics. That is how I see the "word" as expressed. Kinda like telling a polock joke.

Keep Hattie out of it. He is doing a job just as any boss would. If your the boss you make the rules. If you want to change them, then work hard and take the bosses job. Otherwise STFUP.

Are you one of the tiny minority who had heard of the word before this non-issue was turned into an issue? The word evokes no emotional response from me whatsoever, and I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Americans would concur.

Poll Question: Does 'Merkin' evoke an emotional response?
Typical Answer: Does what evoke an emotional response?

Botnst · #7 07-09-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStar

Are you one of the tiny minority who had heard of the word before this non-issue was turned into an issue? ....

So if I'm living in the central Asian Steppes it is alright for me to talk ugly about black people because there are so few who would be offended that it doesn't matter.

Let me add that I don't care about the use of the "M" word. It's like saying somebody from a hole in Arizona is an A-Hole. So what?

I've mostly heard the "M" from whiney people who want to complain about how just awful the mean-old USA is without actually doing a dang thing to make things better. But that's just my cheesy little observation.

B

GermanStar · #8 07-09-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

...So what?...

B

Exactly.

Botnst · #9 07-09-2006, 06:47 PM

What is intriguing is the value we place on something almost everybody agrees is essentially without value.

If it is meaningless and unimportant then why fuss over either its use or its prohibition?

I shall now invent a word that I alone know has horrid implications that belittle all of the people of a certain nation. I'm going to use it publicly but I am NOT going to say which nation it refers to nor what it means. Nor how it must be pronounced.

Fluhrasgghi! Hah, I said it!

Now there is a word that truly has no value. It's value is even less than the "M" word that we must not use.

What is the difference between these words, aside from spelling?

I forgot to mentioned, uh, they are pronounced the same.

B

Zeus · #10 07-10-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Here's one perspective, FWIW.

The owner of this website is in business to make money, not provide a free speech forum. The only reason that this O.D. forum exists is to let off the pressure from the actual, serious threads dealing with the whole reason for having this website. If the owners could offer this website without digressions from the subject of M-B I have absolutely no doubt they would do so. This OD has got to be a net of zero for the owners except as a relief valve from the important threads.

I have no doubt that most of us came to OD in a sort of back-door way. We were looking for parts and car advice and liked the service and generous support from almost universally good-natured, often extremely competent mechanics. We accidentally drifted into OD and were hooked.

So in the greater scheme of all things mercedesshop.com, we are a pretty unwholesome after-thought as far as return-on-investment goes. Mostly we're a bunch of whiney PITA's who get our little feelings hurt and complain. Not much sales traffic in that.

Essentially what I am trying to say is that this is a for-profit venture. It is their mission in life to make money, not to provide a free-speech forum. It is there football, their yard, and their rules of play. If I don't like the rules or if they give me the old heave-ho for my pretentious pontifications or low humor, well, it's their dime.

Bot

Well put, Botnst. That about sums it up.

Hattie and I frequently bounce ideas off each other before we act. His age is irrelevant, as is mine, he's doing a fine job of a thankless and often difficult task.

It would be nice to see this subject dropped. The references to freedom of speech, etc. are a tad ridiculous and off-mark.

It's Bill's forum, the term was used derogatively towards Americans and hence it was asked that the term not be used. Same as if you're a dinner guest and the host asks you to refrain from using a term he/she finds offensive. If you don't like it, there's always McDonald's.

P.S. I'm 35, in case you are irrelevantly wondering.

P.P.S. I don't wear Sebagos.