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Old 04-17-2001, 01:40 AM
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Why? Sure, its cars may not be the most original as far as design is concerned, but you gotta admire and commend Lexus for its sound engineering and smart marketing. Also, its ability to influence other car manufacturers within an 11-year time frame is highly remarkable. How many auto makers can do that? Does anyone here share my views?

The new LS430 may look like a big W140 rip-off and may never have the road presence that the S-Class has, but I don't give a $h!t--I'll take two (granted that I'm not paying), thank you.

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Old 04-17-2001, 02:25 AM
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You own a Mercedes, correct?
Enough said.
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Old 04-17-2001, 02:43 AM
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Go to the Lexus ppl and ask them why they put down M-B...and then we'll get back to you!!!
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Old 04-17-2001, 07:38 AM
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Like HELL I've gotta "admire and commend" Lexsux. Das ist nicht korrekt. Das ist Schitt Auto. Copy copy copy. Wannabe wannabe wannabe. Ain't got the Kahunas to try something of their own, just copy the Germans. THAT'S WHY!!!..Gilly
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Old 04-17-2001, 10:27 AM
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I think what is important is that Lexus (Toyota) has realized that MB is no longer the only the new SC. What's the sincerest form of flattery? No longer.
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Old 04-17-2001, 02:10 PM
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Lexus sucks. Get over it buddy.
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Old 04-17-2001, 02:50 PM
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I have no experience with Lexus models other than the experience of seeing them driving around. I can only see the copied bodies of these cars and personally I think that designing cars should be more than copying models alone.
I don't know anything about the reliability and I don't know anything about the cars endurance. I only know that I like the styling of the iS200, which is not a direct copy of any other existing car model and which has nice taillights and terrific rims.

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Old 04-17-2001, 03:09 PM
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Hi Kuan!

When I said that Lexus has influenced other car manufacturers, I didn't necessarily mean design-wise. What I meant by that statement was how Lexus has made all the "traditional" big wigs of the luxury car market reconsider (if not reevaluate) their company philosophy; that, alone, pretty much effects how their cars are concieved, designed, produced, and, finally, marketed. Having said that, all these big companies now factor in Lexus in their "new-car equation."

Anyhow, I'm still a M-B fan! I just wanted to defend Lexus a little.
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Old 04-17-2001, 03:12 PM
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The question should be...why do a lot of you Lexus (honda, toyota, acura, infiniti, etc) owners come on MB websites and ask us why we put down your cars?
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Old 04-17-2001, 03:13 PM
Davis Lo
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A few or ten years ago, we say Lexus is a copy cat. Yes,they did a portion of design copying plus some of their innovations and end up to be their 'new car'.
But that ERA has passed when Mercedes introduceed their NEW W220 S-class's "new" AIRMATIC suspension system- from the ideas ,operation performance to the design mechanism, THERE IS ALMOST NOTHING DIFFERENT FROM THE 1st generation LEXUS LS400's AIR SUSPENSION which is not the one exported to the US but the more advace system for japan local sale only!! what ??
Mercedes copied LEXUS's 1989 SUSPENSION design ?? Yes, they did and 90% similar. It's not suprising that you guys don't know it as that system was/is available in the japan local market only. Unless you know japanese and always read their local car magazines (starting from 1989 !), you would think Mercedes is the Father of the AIRMATIC!!
Maybe I should tell a bit more detail... Lexus LS400 is called Toyota CELSIOR in japan and availble with 4 packages-

A version - about the same as the exported version LS400
B version - as above plus the standard air suspension
C version - as A plus Advance AIR SUSPENSION which is the FIRST "AIRMATIC" ever applied on cars
C version F package - as C plus premium rear passenger compartment.

Would I say Mercedes is a copy cat? No, because car design becomes more and more identical in the recent years and totally Market Directed- Supply what the market wants and once the public response is good, all other brands will follow and add/make a new model similar to compete. Every manufacturer uses this strategy including Mercedes and Jaguar is the last one to "wake up". For example, when BMW and Honda intoduced their +/- auto gear box in 1996 and Mercedes had it in their cars in 1998, can we say Mercedes follows BMW and Honda 's step ?? I think it is worth us to think seriously BUT no longer who the copy cat is...Just my friendly opinions, don't get me wrong, NO FLAME WAR

BTW, I completely agree with Cossie's last statement. Lexus did make the traditional to think about the way they build their luxurious cars and IS200 is a Statement that Lexus's own STYLISH Culture has built up.

[Edited by Davis Lo on 04-17-2001 at 03:23 PM]
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Old 04-17-2001, 04:22 PM
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In 1976 MB introduced the 6.9 luxury sedan with a 4 wheel pneumatic suspension system.

The Lexus is a fine automobile. It was introduced with strong support from it's parent company, Toyota, to US markets. The Japanese engineers are at least as bright as engineers anywhere else in the world. The car manufacturers have many economic advantages, such as protective tariffs on their home market, subsidized R&D through the government-university system (MITI), zero percent interest loans from the central bank, a weakening Yen, and 12 years of near recession to keep their products inexpensive (none of which kept the Lexus price from going up 47% during the same time frame the MB prices went up 0.4 - 11%, depending on model.) They also have a tradition of refining and modifying basic systems invented elsewhere - The Trinitron TV tube (Lawrence Livermore Labs), the audio CD (Batelle Pacific North-West Labs), etc. And there is nothing illegal with them so doing.

I think many of the concerns expressed by so called "Lexus haters" are typified by my Japanese car mechanic's attitude towards the cars they work on in his shop. "Needlessly complex, difficult to work on, lots of fragile items, not a long term car, lots of 'de-contenting' and corner cutting to save money in recent years". The frustration of many MB owners seems to be that if MB doesn't follow suit, it will loose so much market share to short term car buyers that they will become a niche player like Rolls. The Japanese manufacturers seem to have used the approach of disposable luxury, and if you don't mind (and can afford) trading cars every 5 years, it works. The frustration of MB owners (and others) is that with everything that is going for the Japanese engineers, why not start with a completely blank sheet of paper, and do something new from the ground up?


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Old 04-17-2001, 04:55 PM
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Plain & Simple........Lexus.......Get your own design engineers....Plagarism is an offense that demonstrates your in-eptness and insecurity within the reality of todays world!!!!!
Dale, R129
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Old 04-17-2001, 05:29 PM
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Four Words...

No Damn Hood Ornament...

Besides, the copy-cat model designations, and the pretentious attitude of Lexus owners who look down their noses at you, and say things like, "I see you're still driving a Benz". Like they are so much more advanced and have "evolved" beyond possessing such a vehicle. When in fact, they are telling me that they have no idea what real substance and quality is.

My response, is usually something like, "Yep, better an old Rolex than a new Seiko"...
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Old 04-17-2001, 08:35 PM
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You tell 'em, Scott!!!!

Hey, if we're having a discussion about who invented air suspension, GM had it in 58!!!!! I don't think you can really compare Airmatic to a Lexus system. If I can throw 2 cents worth in too, I think Airmatic sucks anyways (GASP!!!) and ABC is the system to have. Lets see Lexus copy that, MB's only been developing that baby for 20 years now, at least! Also on the +/- shifting, I believe Porsche "fathered" that one, first for in their race cars, then developed into Tiptronic for street cars. Porsche is the best system, has the shift buttons right on the steering wheel, that's the ticket!!! In regards to the influence of Lexus, what I believe the significance of the introduction of the wannabe luxury Asian autos is that no longer is MB able to let the engineers rule the design and production of the cars that are built. The cars used to be truly engineered to a standard, now they are engineered to a price, as the price has to be competitive to the other manufacturers. THANKS, Lexsux, really appreciate it....Gilly
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Old 04-17-2001, 10:27 PM
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I'm surprised that no one mentioned the "active suspension" system that Mercedes has recently incorporated in the new CL. Infiniti (yes, a Japanese automaker) introduced the active suspension in 1990. It was INCREDIBLY advanced at the time, and is still quite respectable today.

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