Employees are disposable goods - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Maroon 300D · #31 10-31-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

This is a hoot!

Fact one: Many employers are scum
Fact two: Many employees are scum.

I have witnessed this from both sides. "Loyal" employees who switch to a competitor for $.50/hour. Employers who reward good employees by promotong them to a wage that they cannot sustain.

Nearly all employees have an " Us versus Them" mentality--born from the labor unios--thanks a lot.
Employees need to remember that employers need to make between 2.2 and 2.5 times what they pay you just to break even---SSI, Medicar insur,Workman's comp, health insurance, dental insurance, 401K contributions,etc--it all adds up.

I've worked at one unionized workplace. They were a pain in the a$$ because they would always complain when I took on extra duties. I did this because I wanted to, and because the older employees who were more entrenched pretty much refused to do anything. I was doing it for my benefit, not the company's.

On the other hand, management was far worse. In the end I got angry and left that job because management seemed to be completely incompetent. No, I take that back, they were completely incompetent. I decided I just couldn't work for them anymore.

The surly attitude of the union stewards there was probably a direct result of dirty/stupid/ridiculous tactics of management over the years.

I prefer to work for smaller companies where I am more than just a number to the people who make the decisions. But I have worked for more than one large company, and the competence of middle management seems to be a big factor in whether the employees are reasonably happy or whether they want to kill themselves when their alarms go off in the morning.

I've never been fired from any job since I was 14.

Benzadmiral · #32 10-31-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

. . .
So, as I have said before, since the door swings both ways, why the hue and cry? I the employee owe you the employer NOTHING. When I find a better offer, you either match it or I leave. So, reversing the equation, what do I the employer owe you the employee? If I cannot match the price, you would leave. You wouldn't stick around just to help me out.

People keep talking about employer responsibilities, etc, etc. What about the employee? Why does he get a free pass?

That would be okay (though reprehensible in a civilized society), if the corporations didn't keep yammering about how employees are supposed to be loyal to their companies.

Noise about "at-will" employment is just that, noise. What it means is, the company can fire you at will. It doesn't mean you can find another job at will. (You're free to look, of course. As I did for eleven months during 2001-02, after being "laid off"/"let go" from my IT job.)
.

Dee8go · #33 10-31-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

The surly attitude of the union stewards there was probably a direct result of dirty/stupid/ridiculous tactics of management over the years.

I think a lot of problems like this are the result of people being in adversarial relationships. In the end nobody really "wins." A lot of foolishness ensues because everybody is out to "get" the other side.

People often assume this is true of salesmen and their customers. I'm a salesman and I always try to work with my customers, not against them. That's the best way to cultivate long-term relationships. Some people just can't seem to relate that way.

The same is true of employers and employees.

aklim · #34 10-31-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

That would be okay (though reprehensible in a civilized society), if the corporations didn't keep yammering about how employees are supposed to be loyal to their companies.

Noise about "at-will" employment is just that, noise. What it means is, the company can fire you at will. It doesn't mean you can find another job at will. (You're free to look, of course. As I did for eleven months during 2001-02, after being "laid off"/"let go" from my IT job.)
.

Yeah well, words only go so far. Employees are supposed to be loyal to the companies and companies are supposed to be loyal to the employees. However, like in any relationship, it goes both ways. I don't see the loyalty in you and you won't see the loyalty in me. Oh, but you will get the lip service (Not the Jenna Jameson kind tho). Of course, when I go to an interview, I tell them how I would like to grow with the company, etc, etc. Think I mean a word of what I say? Sure, until a better offer comes along, I do.

Yes, the company can fire you at will. What of it? You can quit your job at will too and it doesn't mean the company can find a suitable replacement that will work out immediately. Remember, when you hire somebody, it takes a long time before they move from the status of dead weight to productive employee. You don't make them a penny for the time you are in training nor do you make much for them after you are done training till you get the hang of the job. For instance, it takes 2 yrs to train an RN to be an OR nurse before she is productive. A regular floor nurse takes several months before she can do her job as good as the others and meet standards. So, just because you leave and I hire somebody tomorrow, there is no gaurantee that this person will even work out. And after they do, are they going to be as productive? Maybe, maybe not. Crap shoot. If all they are looking for is a warm body, it is easy. My wife is leaving her job tomorrow. It will take a good 6 months just to train her replacement to do her job. How do I know? Because people in her position are being trained for 6 months. Oh, some of them leave after training so the employer is back to square 1.

aklim · #35 10-31-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

I think a lot of problems like this are the result of people being in adversarial relationships. In the end nobody really "wins." A lot of foolishness ensues because everybody is out to "get" the other side.

People often assume this is true of salesmen and their customers. I'm a salesman and I always try to work with my customers, not against them. That's the best way to cultivate long-term relationships. Some people just can't seem to relate that way.

The same is true of employers and employees.

Well, in a union situation, who do the " employees" work for? I'd shaft the union workers too. They are NOT my employees. They are just people I loaned from the temp agency (union) who are trying to get whatever they can get from me. Cuts both ways.

aklim · #36 10-31-2006, 01:38 PM

You know what? I have been on both sides of the fence. I have had employees that I paid fairly but they have left for greener pastures or basically went ROAD on me. I have also had employers that were jerks and I had to find something better. I don't *****. It just is.

Maroon 300D · #37 10-31-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, in a union situation, who do the " employees" work for? I'd shaft the union workers too. They are NOT my employees. They are just people I loaned from the temp agency (union) who are trying to get whatever they can get from me. Cuts both ways.

People in temp agencies are in unions? Where?

raymr · #38 10-31-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Perhaps so. However, OTOH, isn't it the employee also out there searching for the best deal and when he/she gets it, he/she uses it either for leverage or to get going to greener pastures?

So, as I have said before, since the door swings both ways, why the hue and cry? I the employee owe you the employer NOTHING. When I find a better offer, you either match it or I leave. So, reversing the equation, what do I the employer owe you the employee? If I cannot match the price, you would leave. You wouldn't stick around just to help me out.

People keep talking about employer responsibilities, etc, etc. What about the employee? Why does he get a free pass?

For many, job hunting is a very unpleasant experience, similar to public speaking. Its a natural tendancy to put off unpleasant things, as long as the current situation is barely tolerable. I think thats the human trait that keeps people from seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to the longevity of their jobs. Denial.

There are situations where an employer will invest in its employees via education and training. Then the hope is that the employee will stick around long enough for the company to realize some payback. Its no guarantee, but maybe convincing the boss to pay for education will help you keep a job that you like. If not, then you still have the training, which looks good on your resume.

aklim · #39 10-31-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

People in temp agencies are in unions? Where?

Look closely at the difference between a union and a temp agency. I don't see much of a difference. My wife was a union worker because she was pressganged into it. Well, the union controls everything and basically the employer cannot hardly do a thing. It is evident in their attitude that they owe nothing to the company. Everything is union derived. So, how are they any different from a temp agency or an employment agency?

aklim · #40 10-31-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

For many, job hunting is a very unpleasant experience, similar to public speaking. Its a natural tendancy to put off unpleasant things, as long as the current situation is barely tolerable. I think thats the human trait that keeps people from seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to the longevity of their jobs. Denial.

There are situations where an employer will invest in its employees via education and training. Then the hope is that the employee will stick around long enough for the company to realize some payback. Its no guarantee, but maybe convincing the boss to pay for education will help you keep a job that you like. If not, then you still have the training, which looks good on your resume.

Yes it is unpleasant on both ends. I have recruited people before and it is difficult to find people that are willing to stick around. However, denial is correct. So, if you adopt stupid attitudes and refuse to see the writing on the wall, whose fault is that?

Of course you have to upgrade yourself from time to time otherwise you will be replaced.

MS Fowler · #41 10-31-2006, 09:38 PM

This really is nothing new.
Many of you are too young to remember, or to have even read about the revolution that Henry Ford started with his $5 day.
Prevailing wages for assembly line workers was $240/ day. Ford had tremendous turnover (think of the training costs) and absebteeisn, especially on Mondays and Fridays. He offered the $5 day (part as cash, part as a bonus) to get better employees. It worked.
It also raised wages throughout the country and made millions of assembly line workers into automobile buyers. That extra demand helped keep the assembly lines running.

Carleton Hughes · #42 10-31-2006, 10:49 PM

The moron for whom I worked in the machine shop was a short-sighted bastard.

I was already running the place at 17 doing a helluva job when I decided to get more work as under my stewardship there was at least 45-60 minutes free time.

I hit the local dealerships,since we had a little used surface grinder I asked them who did their flywheels and clutch plates,they almost all said ******** did their work,O.K.sez I,how much you pay ********? $20.00 apiece,they said.
"I'll do 'em for 12.50,I'll take as many as you got".

Wasn't difficult to train my helper to set up the plates and grind'em smooth and level and this brought in an extra $300.00 a month after we got started,1970's prices.......

When Fat Bastard{shop owner}found out about this we had a royal falling out,didn't matter that the bank deposits were increased and that we stayed over some saturdays to get the extra work out,that's what we were in business for,so I thought,the plain fact is I went over his head,despite the fact all profit was his,I essentially emasculated him.

I was also banging his horny wife as well,{I loved older women,they knew what they wanted}when he was passed out drunk{he never found out}it was she who saved me by witholding the monthly sex she was obliged to endure from him,I also got a raise,but still,working for others really sucks.

Austin85 · #43 10-31-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

This really is nothing new.
Many of you are too young to remember, or to have even read about the revolution that Henry Ford started with his $5 day.
Prevailing wages for assembly line workers was $240/ day. Ford had tremendous turnover (think of the training costs) and absebteeisn, especially on Mondays and Fridays. He offered the $5 day (part as cash, part as a bonus) to get better employees. It worked.
It also raised wages throughout the country and made millions of assembly line workers into automobile buyers. That extra demand helped keep the assembly lines running.

Finally a little bit....ALOT of sense among a bunch of senseless posts.

aklim · #44 10-31-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

This really is nothing new.
Many of you are too young to remember, or to have even read about the revolution that Henry Ford started with his $5 day.
Prevailing wages for assembly line workers was $240/ day. Ford had tremendous turnover (think of the training costs) and absebteeisn, especially on Mondays and Fridays. He offered the $5 day (part as cash, part as a bonus) to get better employees. It worked.
It also raised wages throughout the country and made millions of assembly line workers into automobile buyers. That extra demand helped keep the assembly lines running.

That was then. Would it work today? With the disposable culture we have, I don't think so. Look at the Zippo vs Bic lighters. How many Zippos do you se and how many Bics do you see?

RobTheMod · #45 10-31-2006, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Yeah well, words only go so far. Employees are supposed to be loyal to the companies and companies are supposed to be loyal to the employees. However, like in any relationship, it goes both ways. I don't see the loyalty in you and you won't see the loyalty in me. Oh, but you will get the lip service (Not the Jenna Jameson kind tho). Of course, when I go to an interview, I tell them how I would like to grow with the company, etc, etc. Think I mean a word of what I say? Sure, until a better offer comes along, I do.

Yes, the company can fire you at will. What of it? You can quit your job at will too and it doesn't mean the company can find a suitable replacement that will work out immediately. Remember, when you hire somebody, it takes a long time before they move from the status of dead weight to productive employee. You don't make them a penny for the time you are in training nor do you make much for them after you are done training till you get the hang of the job. For instance, it takes 2 yrs to train an RN to be an OR nurse before she is productive. A regular floor nurse takes several months before she can do her job as good as the others and meet standards. So, just because you leave and I hire somebody tomorrow, there is no gaurantee that this person will even work out. And after they do, are they going to be as productive? Maybe, maybe not. Crap shoot. If all they are looking for is a warm body, it is easy. My wife is leaving her job tomorrow. It will take a good 6 months just to train her replacement to do her job. How do I know? Because people in her position are being trained for 6 months. Oh, some of them leave after training so the employer is back to square 1.

Uh, when you're in my field (auto mechanics) you better not be dead weight for long... usually once you're at the level of a few yrs experience, you just roll your toolbox in and start working. First day at a chiefly BMW shop after 3 yrs on mainly VW/Audi, I banged out four brake jobs, then had to ask for help on BMW self-leveling suspension; the second day, I taught the foreman how to do an Audi A4 timing belt. What you're saying is true in some cases but certainly not all.