Yes, Kerry is a buffoon, but so is GW for intentionally twisting the meaning behind Kerry's gaff for personal and political gain. A decent human being and responsible leader would have ignored, even excused the gaff, since it is not in the best interest of his country to do otherwise. In regard to Iraq, this has been an obvious outcome all along to many of us. Three distinct cultures that loathe each other are not going to be coaxed into a stable pro-U.S. democracy, since the only thing they hate more than each other is us. Since this was never a possible outcome, the administration's real goals must lie elsewhere.

I don't feel bad about my convictions.

See, you called Kerry a dork. That's an insult.

Agreed. What's your point?

Regardless of which side of the aisle you're on, you have to admit the Republicans have become world-class spinners. Man-O-man, the Dems are going to be afraid to say anything if this keeps up.

BTW, I'm a disgruntled Republican. I'm not too happy about the apparent disregard my party seems to have for the ordinary folks like us. The party's stated platform is what I support. Unfortunately, I don't see them following it.

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Yeah, so Kerry was shooting off his mouth 30 years ago while GW was doing cocaine and smoking dope. Big deal....

As far as Kerry-Bush, it's a 2 way street. If Kerry's whole intention was to slam Bush, I think it's only fair for Bush to strike back.

3 distinct cultures can come together. It just takes time. A long time. Younger generations will weed out the old hate. There is still racist bigots in the USA and there always probably will. Although I think their numbers are diminishing and the hatred is not as intense.

Bush is the POTUS, and should be held to a higher standard, IMHO. I know they all do, but presidents should not play politics. In regard to Iraq, do you suggest that we continue to occupy it for a few generations and hope for the best? Will that convince Iraqis to stop hating their conquerers as well as each other? Face it, this was a fool's errand from the start, and was never in the best interest of our country. We will be the ones to suffer ramifications of this fiasco for generations, not just the Iraqis.

That's ridiculous. Even if Kerry intended to insult Bush, it's only fair for Bush to tell audiences that Kerry insulted the troops?That might be true.

I think generations of occupation is not the answer. However, I think that Military bases in the region are needed. We still have bases around the world, why not in the Middle East? A total pull out of our forces would be devastating to Iraq. I also know that not all that we are doing there is good. But it's not all bad either.

GS, I consider you one of the smartest folks around here. I tried to make this point way back in the olden days of this thread, but I'm also a realist. EVERYONE behaves this way in politics. If a candidate doesn't do it, someone in his or her party or campaign will. Sad, but true. Can you think of any politician who's truly above this sort of thing? I'd suggest MAYBE Lieberman, but I'm sure one could dig up something he's said to disprove me. Colin Powell maybe? Not that he counts -- he never really held elected political office.

I agree with your point that it's a disgusting trend, but it's the status quo. Hard to fault any one person for playing by the playground rules. Now, how do we change those rules and make integrity count again?

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As soon as both sides start coming back to the center. Take the far right religious nut jobs and the far left Howard Deans and Ted Kennedys out.

Here is what I consider an appropriate response, and from Dick Cheney no less: ""Aren't we lucky he lost that election?" the veep cracked during a campaign speech in Montana. Still poking fun at the Democrats' losing 2004 presidential candidate, Cheney added, "Of course, now Sen. Kerry says he was just making a joke, and he botched it up. ... He was for the joke before he was against it." He takes a good-natured swipe at Kerry that I thought was genuinely funny. Very different than the hate-filled bile GW was spewing a couple days before, trying to turn the entire military against one of their own. But you're right -- they all do it, and they do it because it plays.

It might under certain circumstances. I do not believe that's a realistic possibility here, given the unbridled animosity Iraqi factions feel toward the idea of the U.S. imposing itself as the nexus of this situation. Iraq will almost certainly need to be partitioned, and the result will be a more powerful and more influential Iran.

Go stand on a street corner and say that! Then we wont have to read your bull**** posts any longer.