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  #31  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:14 AM
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Well, looks like I called that one. Don, check over in the "Recruiter" thread, I made a fairly long post over there about dealing with recruiters. I also predicted that if you had good ASVAB scores, they'd push Nuclear Power.

I work 2nd shift at Freightliner, leave home at 1:30 PM and get home at 11:30 PM, that's why I missed most of the discussion. I work there as a Quality Control Inspector, was able to move into that from the Assembly line thanks to all the Quality Assurance training I had in the Navy.

Besides your mom, if you have a family member or acquaintance that has been or is in the military, preferably Navy, have them present with the next meeting with the recruiters. Nothing will shut down the schuck-and-jive from a recruiter faster than knowing there's another squid present that knows the score. He'll be inclined to stick to the truth, knowing that this guy can spread the word on him if he tries to feed you a line, and make it damned hard on him to sign anyone else up.

Just remember, they're salesmen - they're going to push the positive and avoid anything they feel is negative or might make you shy away from signing up. For a Navy recruiter, getting someone with high enough scores to qualify for Nuclear Power is like hitting the Lotto. They'll get bonus points from their bosses for signing you up - signing you up is the equivalent of signing up 3 other recruits to them, makes their job for the month a lot easier.

I served from '77 to '97, enlisted, nuclear power, submarines, retired as an E-6 due to the drawdown after the first Gulf War and the splitting up of the engineering rates (kinda hard to make E-7 when your rating is suddenly 75% overmanned with CPO's). I was a Machinist Mate (MM). Served on SSBN-645 James K Polk (one of the original 44 Polaris boats) Charleston SC, AS-31 Hunley sub tender in Holy Loch Scotland, SSBN-727 Michigan (Trident) Bangor WA, SSN-647 Sunfish (637 class fast attack) Norfolk VA, SSBN-728 Florida (Trident) Bangor WA, did both shore duty tours at Bangor Sub Base in WA state. Boot camp in Orlando, MM "A" school in Great Lakes (or Great Mistakes as we referred to it), Nuclear Power School in Orlando, Nuclear Prototype Training (running a land-based version of a naval nuke plant) on the old S3G Triton plant in Ballston Spa NY (near Saratoga Springs).

This may have changed since I was in, but there were 3 different engineering rates you could be assigned to as a nuke - Machinist Mate, Electricians Mate, or Electronics Tech. The recruiter will tell you you can request to be any of the 3 - and that's all you can do, request. The NAVY WILL DECIDE which one of the 3 rates you will be according to manpower requirements for the program after you're in boot camp, and I'll tell you right now, it's about a 95% chance you'll end up being a Machinist Mate. I saw guys that came into the program with 4 year degrees in electrical and electronic engineering told they were going to be mechanics because that's what the Navy needed at the time, they won't give a hoot what your previous education and training was.

I don't know if this approach would still work, but back in the day ('78) several guys in my nuke school class came into the Navy as regular electricians mates and ET's, so they could be certain of being one of these rates. After this training was complete, THEN they applied to get into the Nuclear Power Program. But that was 30 years ago, and the Navy may very well have put rules in place since then to stop people from doing this end run on them. I can guarantee that the recruiter will tell you flat out you can't do this - he wants to get credit for signing you up as a nuke, and he'll be waving a signup bonus in your face. But if nukes are in as high a demand as they were when I was still in, then it's probably not going to matter to them if you're coming in straight out of high school, or as a EM or ET from the fleet, they're still going to need bodies with enough smarts to run those plants.

For that matter, if you qualify to get into Nuclear Power, then you qualify to get into any damn program they offer - Advanced Electronics, etc. Back in the day, the recruiters handed out a book that gave a brief synopsis of all the different enlisted ratings in the Navy - job description, normal working conditions, tours of duty, required schools, etc. - and the more specialized programs such as Nuclear Power and Advanced Electronics. Ask the recruiter if he has one of these or if you can access it on line. Take the time and check out everything that's available to you, explore your options. I'm not trying to talk you out of Nuclear Power if that's what you've got your heart set on, but you just might come across something that strikes your fancy more than NP and didn't even realize it existed until you looked. And you'll never know if you don't take the time to look. Once you've signed the papers, it's too late to change your mind.

As far as the 3 different rates - machinist mates operate and repair the mechanical systems, both in the steam plant and the reactor itself. Electricians mates should be pretty self-explanatory. Electronics Technicians actually operate and run the reactor itself, and all the electronic systems associated with controlling it.

Lots more i wish i had time to go over, but it's 3 AM and i need to get up and go vote before heading off to work. Hope I've at least given you a head start and a heads up on what to think about. Feel free to post or PM me with any more questions.

Old saying in the Navy - "Choose your rate, choose your fate" , so choose wisely in the beginning.

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  #32  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
You have any relatives in the military? Regardless of branch, quiz them.

Trust your Mom's ability to read their personalities after the recruiters go. It's a woman thing and I swear it's real. Not perfect, but better than yours, probably. If she thinks they're handing you BS then go to a different recruiting station. With your scores any recruiter will roll over and beg for your attention.

B
Better yet, have the relatives with military experience there as well.

Words of advice that should be engraved in stone for any young person considering joining the military.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2006, 03:45 AM
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Good luck. Great Lakes IL. is a wonderful place to visit in the winter.
Gawd, kid isn't even signed up yet, and you're already feeding him BS about Great Mistakes!

May as well tell him to take along 20 feet of chow line, some relative bearing grease, and the hook for the mail buoy when he reports to his first boat.

And yes, when you're talking about submarines, we call them "boats".

Never set foot on a carrier, but I've seen plenty of pictures of them - with a set of periscope crosshairs framing the "target".
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2006, 04:01 AM
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Question: Any women on subs yet? I'm pretty sure they are stationed on carriers nowadays.

Haze gray and underway........
None on subs, at least when I got out in '97 - no room for separate facilities and berthing (which, in my humble and dirty-minded opinion, makes an excellent case FOR putting women on subs! )

And for subs, it's "fast, black, and never come back".
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Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

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  #35  
Old 11-07-2006, 04:16 AM
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im going for the asvab test again next week and a physical.. im going to talk to others about it before i commit
That's probably not going to be the ASVAB again, if you've already taken it. Most likely it's the NFQT, Nuclear Field Qualification Test. Algebra, Calculus, etc, more focused on the type of knowledge and education you'd need to get thru Nuclear Power School. Back in my day, had to score at least a 65 on it to qualify for getting in the program. Just the first of many gates you'll have to meet to successfully complete the program if you commit to it.
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  #36  
Old 11-07-2006, 07:39 AM
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Don, don't forget the Coast Guard.
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2006, 07:39 AM
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thanks retmin... i do want to do nuclear and do plan on becoming an officer. my uncle that was in the navy lives in chicago but from what hes told me it was the best decision hes ever made.

i know about the 3 choice deal, the recruiter explained that one to me. even in the nuclear field on the outside the pay is great(so ive been told).

the recruiter said i can take the asvab again and if i score an 89 i wont have to take the NFQT, my nuke score right now is 10 points shy of skip the 50 questions.

i know that signing up a nuke is like 3 regulars for the recruiter, reason the look on the marines face lit up in the room.

what would you say to a kid that is highly interested in the military and nuclear field that has such an oppertunity as this, sure a i could be an MM, ET, or EL in the nuke field but what would you say.

coast guard...hmm
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2006, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by retmil46 View Post
Never set foot on a carrier, but I've seen plenty of pictures of them - with a set of periscope crosshairs framing the "target".


Isn't that why they (supposedly) never leave home without company below?

Speaking of crosshairs, I wonder just how many fish (ours and theirs?) (are they still called fish?) and other weapons my old America took during her SINKEX in 2005. Would love to know how much BD she took before they scuttled her.

"Fast, Black and Never Come Back"...
(Now I like that !!
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2006, 08:39 AM
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back in the '60's one of my older sisters was dating a submariner when I was thinking about joining the USN. He pushed for subs by saying, "Two kinds of vessels in the Navy, submarines and targets."

On a previous subject, I think there is at least one surface combatant ship, not a carrier, that is a nuke. Not sure it's designation.

Found it: CGN. CG is a cruiser, "N" is nuke.

CGN-9 Long Beach
CGN-25 Bainbridge
CGN-35 Truxtun
CGN-36 California
CGN-38 Virginia

Example descriptor:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cgn-36.htm

Last edited by Botnst; 11-07-2006 at 08:44 AM.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2006, 08:53 AM
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the navy isnt my only option.. its more or less my second option
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  #41  
Old 11-07-2006, 09:22 AM
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the navy isnt my only option.. its more or less my second option
Again check out the CG, my little brother graduated from Colorado Univerisity and joined the Coast Guard and loves it, at first he wanted to do it to enforce enviromental law but now he is sort of a CG Special Op's guy and has great pay, great duty stations and lots of vacation time.
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2006, 10:03 AM
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I hang out with Coasties a good bit because there is a small station near my house in VA and they have a killer volleyball court. I agree it is the 'cleanest' way to go being the most comfortable and the best stations. BUT, if you don't want to be a cop, don't join the Coast Guard. Coast Guard=water cop in the US. I played poker with 6 of the guys at Milford Haven station in Matthews Co. VA on Friday night for about 4 hours and they even got calls in for a lost dog. Funny thing was, they didn't respond to the lost dog call, because they already had a rescued dog on the station, and the regs would not allow them to board another, so they called the Sheriff to respond They got three other PonPons that evening when I was there: 2 sailboats aground that had gone into coves to get out of the wind and a call from a panicked wife who's husband was 3 hours overdue from fishing.
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2006, 10:25 AM
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You'll have a slightly better ride if you game the system a little. Go into the engineering rates, and pre-qualify for “A” school before you sign up, but don't sign up for the nuclear program until you can see how it's going in Basic Propulsion Eng. School. If you're doing very well there they'll be trying to get you to go nuke. If you're not one of the top in your basic school you won't go on to the nuke program anyway and will have somewhat of a setback in your records.
Also the nuke guys make rate a little better, but seems that they then keep them there so that it's harder to go into the Academy or go to a college from the fleet. Going nuke is almost a step toward going ahead and doing 20 in my mind, but you can make that election after you're in and see how well you do and how well you like the life. If your on top at your A school you can step in front of somebody that signed up for six at the recruiter and wind up being in a slightly stronger position.IMO
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2006, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
back in the '60's one of my older sisters was dating a submariner when I was thinking about joining the USN. He pushed for subs by saying, "Two kinds of vessels in the Navy, submarines and targets."

On a previous subject, I think there is at least one surface combatant ship, not a carrier, that is a nuke. Not sure it's designation.

Found it: CGN. CG is a cruiser, "N" is nuke.

CGN-9 Long Beach
CGN-25 Bainbridge
CGN-35 Truxtun
CGN-36 California
CGN-38 Virginia

Example descriptor:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/cgn-36.htm
There was also the South Carolina (sister ship to 36), and Mississippi, Texas, Arkansas (Virginia class).

I say WAS, because if I'm not mistaken, all of them were put in mothballs back in the 90's during the drawdown. I remember one of the newest, Texas, was decommed around '95 or so. Even the newest would be pushing 25 to 30 years old now anyway, due for retirement.

Basically, they got replaced by the new gas turbine jobs, Ticonderoga CG-47 class, Aegis air defense ships. CGN's were built along more traditional lines = harder to upgrade and overhaul. Gas turbine jobs were built to be modular, just swap out modules to upgrade equipment, lot less time in the yards.

Also there was the expense of the power plant. For a carrier where you could easily expect a 50 year service life, and not having to carry bunker fuel meant that much more aviation fuel on board, makes sense.
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2006, 11:52 AM
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BUT, if you don't want to be a cop, don't join the Coast Guard. Coast Guard=water cop in the US. .
Very true. My little brother patrolled the SF wharf and Golden Gate, they were a "reaction team" so they did not rescue unless lives were in serious danger.

Below is a photo of him at work:




He is now a bomb dog handler where he is lower onto ship via helicopter to inspect ships.....alone. Dangerous biz IMO

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