Looking for opinions for anyone willing to share one. My '93 201 just turned 175K and purrs like a kitten; alas that is not the problem child in the family.

Wife's '97 Olds CS SL @154K just took a crap on a highway, engine failure. First diagnosis of injectors (surprise) superceded by discovery of busted cam. So she's facing an expensive fix or junk-it situation. This is that nasty GM 3.1 engine that's notorius for injector problems. Some facts:

Lifestyle: we live near downtown chicago, much city driving with occasional suburban jaunts. She's a social worker, in and out of rough hoods throughout the day.

Fix it argument: Highly reputable rebuilt engine can be had for $1773, 3yr unlimited miles warranty. Would have to find installation. Probably replace injectors and wires and stuff at that time as well. You have to tilt the engine to change plugs (unbelievable). So probably looking at change out of 3 dimes, and she'd have to keep the car for 3-5 more years. Rest of the car generally in decent shape. Also, $800 recent investment for new brakes all around, (discs, pads, rear calipers), which I did over the summer. She got the car for free, from her family.

Junk it argument: Many smarter than me have said this injector problem with this engine is a nightmare. If she does fix it, more recurring $$ down the road? She's gotten injectors done maybe twice in 80K miles, total cost maybe $1500. She could get a new/used car, but unless I find a private party, taxes on a mediocre $20K car would be $2K and where does that 2K go? Remember she's a social worker driving in urban chicago, so a nice car is out of the question. But I keep thinking her fixed car with a new engine @ 3K is a better option than a used d'jour @ $14K?

Was thinking of giving her my 201, then I can finally begin my hunt for a nice 124 or gasp, 126! But I don't think so. She doesn't like absence of a/c and stereo. Oh well. She worries about driving my car around because I love it so much, even though blue book is only $3K or so.

Does anyone have any strong feelings either way? I'd like for someone who really knows this engine/injector problem to tell me I'd be crazy to fix it, and it should be junked regardless. Is spending 3 dimes on this just stupid, no matter what? Cut your losses?

Another option is to let her drive my car for the winter so I have sufficient time to find a private party. Maybe a 6 month project?

Thanks in advance for any opinion!
mike

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1993 190E 2.3 California

Junk it, pretty much a no brainer situation.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

I don't know that it is necessarily a no brainer to junk the car. The injector failure risk was a risk you were already assuming before the engine failed, so it was a risk you were already comfortable with, presumably. I don't think that should factor into your decision. You claim the car is in generally good condition, other than this engine failure. I think the question I'd first ask you is this: before the engine failed, how long were you planning on keeping this car? If you had planned to junk it in the next year or two, then I think the smart thing to do would be to accelerate your timetable and replace it now. You probably wont get your $3K back from in in a year or two, and you're still assuming the injector risk at the same time.

If you didn't have any plans to junk the car, and you really believe that mechanically it can give you another 5 years, then make the investment and fix the car. You'll get your money back if you amortize it over those 5 years. The hard truth is that you car, with a good engine, is probably only worth $3K if you were to sell it so that repair doesn't seem to make sense on its face. But it is worth $14K to you, because that is what you are prepared to spend to replace it. If you can drive it enough to get that $3K back, then spend the money.

It's a '97 GM product. You think fixing the injectors or engine swap is gonna be the solve? You live in Chicago and I'm pretty sure the car doesn't come with Ziebart. Doesn't do you any good if the engine falls off its mounts or your brake pedal goes trhough the floorpan.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

changing spark plugs sucks, but I wouldnt farm it out for $300... Unblot the motor mount, and pry on the block... OR, just put some $$ ones in there on the new engine, and run them for 5 years. The engine it allready out of the car, spend another $100 on exelent quallity spark plugs, and wires.


I like GM products, cause they're CHEAP. It's extreamly easy to get parts for that car, if u need ANYTHING, I can go junkyarding for you...

how's the transmission? IF it's had good fluid maintiance, I'd keep the car.

It's a decent car, mabey you should do an L67 swap ... 3.8...

I'd keep it, and have it fixed... If you dont think you'll get much for resale, think of the depreciation on a NEW car...

I'd be half tempted to buy a GOOD $4k car, and be prepaired to spend another grand tops on it making it perfect...

Good luck
~Nate

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95 Honda Shadow ACE 1100.
1999 Plymouth Neon Expresso. 2.4 swap, 10.5 to 1 comp, big cams. Autocross time attack vehicle!
2012 Escape, 'hunter" (5 sp 4cyl)

whats a spark plug

No diesel hijacks! :fork_off:

Thanks for the responses so far. Some spirited opinions. 2-2 keep verus junk with good arguments both sides. Some comments and further thoughts...

-yes, comfortable with injector risk. can get professionally cleaned for $109 every 20K, can maybe last 50K before failure again?

-no intention to get a new car w/i 2-3 years unless we had to. she wants kids and a big house so she knows a Toyota Sienna is years away.

-I concur with the depreciation argument someone gave. If all she need is basic transportion, and will keep the car for 3-5 more years. A $14K mediocre used car will depreciate more than the cost if flipping the engine, IF it the flipped engine would make it 3+ more years.

-she just needs basic transportation, no lifestyle issues.

- no rusted floorboards, heck chicago only gets like 5 snows a season these days, also stored outside, so no heatup/colddown issues with corrosion

-no trans slipping at all and fluid changed once at least in the last 60K that I know she's had it.

I just can't get past the depreciation cost of getting another car. I already decided if my 102 motor or trans ever went south, gauranteed i'd get rebuilts, but this is not my car.

Thanks again for the responses so far.

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1993 190E 2.3 California

if it was my car i would just buy another motor and fix whats needed, granted the body is in good shape. 3k for a new motor is better than 14k plus interest plus new tag and title fees..

Why a $14k used car? Plenty of reliable used cars under $7k, including most MB 124's. Spending $3k on an Old's with 150k+ miles that at best is worth $2500 fixed makes no sense. She got the car for nothing and drove it for a couple of years, cut your losses and move on to something that runs good with lower mileage. How many more thousands in addition to the 3k motor job are you prepared to put into that Old's to keep it running another 3+ years?

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

The alternator is going to go next, then the P/S pump, if the headgasket doesn't blow first (headgasket is moot, if you're getting a rebuilt vs. fixing existing).

Then again, the car was free to begin with, so you if you spent $4k, would you end up with a $4k car?

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

Au contrair mon frair...

IMHO, a reliable Mercedes for less than 7k? Reliable is relative, but compare the price of parts and repair for GM vs MB. Yearly upkeep on a 124 will run close to $1000, and it will alwways be a tired car. The climate control on a MB can cost more than the cost of the rebuilt motor for the Olds.

A used car is going to have issues, and better to stick with a car you know, rather than buying someone else's problems. It's a 1997 Olds, it's not that old. No pun intended.

It's cheaper, in the long run, to fix the Olds. If you bought a 7k used car, the engine might blow in six months, after all, it's just a used car. With advent of leasing, people don't take care of cars like they used to. People will tell you that GM is junk, the other side of the coin is that they forgive MB for many sins.

Here is a great link for fuel injector service:

http://www.witchhunter.com/index.php4

They charge $15.00 per injector.

My mom had a 96 olds Cutlass with the same peice of trash 3.1. I swear that thing eats an $80 injector every 6-12 months. Thats the best part, try getting to them! You have to remove the intake which is a cool battle! The car itself is in general a cheap POS that my sister is currantly running into the ground.

Our solution was to buy my mom a 2007 Rav4. So far the Toyota is flawless, as expected.

The trick with the back three plugs on these POS engines is to put 100K mile super platnum plugs in. Then just never change the back three, figure the car's going to die first. Plat plugs should go 150k-200k before they miss fire.

I say dump it, its a sunk ship let it die. Buy a nice Honda, or Toyota and enjoy. The new Camry is out and its an amazing car if you want to shop new.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I must have been lucky. I had a 1994 Chevrolet Lumina with the 3.1L and it had 200K and still ran like new. It was a company car before however, so it saw the best service. I sold it 3 years ago and I still see it from time to time.

My mom also has a 1997 Oldsmobile SL, but an Achieva model with the 2.4L. It has 158K now and still runs like new. However, she wants an SUV now. We know the car is not worth much, as the resell value of the 90s GM cars are horrible, but it has sentimental value, because it was grandpas car. We will probably just keep it too. So, in conclusion, I would not put alot of money into your car, unless you plan on keeping it for many more years. If it is reliable in all other areas, I would fix the engine and you would be good to go for another 3 years at least (with that warranty). $1700 is better than a new $17,000 car.

Good luck!

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2004 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4wd
1991 Lincoln Town Car Executive
1991 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1988 Mercedes 300SEL
1972 Chevrolet Caprice Kingswood Estate 9-passenger wagon
1973 Pontiac Grand Ville
(Prior MB's: 1974 240D, 1985 380SE, 1984 190D, 1993 400SEL)

If you like GM, find a Bonneville, 88/98, or LeSabre with the GM 3.8 liter V6. This is a completely different engine than the 3.1 and is a tough, durable, economical engine. GM also offers/offered some mid-sized vehicles with this motor as an extra-cost option. I drove a 1994 Bonneville for 65,000 agressive miles and the only problem it had was that it ate an alternator. $250 and I was back on the road.

I would not put any more money into the Cutlass. It's just too old with too many other parts that are in the sunset of their lives.

[QUOTE=Hatterasguy;1333914
Our solution was to buy my mom a 2007 Rav4. So far the Toyota is flawless, as expected. [/QUOTE]


My grampa has a 04/05? hilander, thoose seats are a pain in the ass (VERY hard)... Other then that, it's ok... I didnt like the seats AT ALL, and the interior was kinda wierd for an SUV


I'll stick to my non complicated oldsmobile tornado trofeo dashboard, thank you very much

New engine, and when it's out, and have the alternater and p/s pump rebuilt ($200 tops?)

I'd keep it.............
~Nate

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95 Honda Shadow ACE 1100.
1999 Plymouth Neon Expresso. 2.4 swap, 10.5 to 1 comp, big cams. Autocross time attack vehicle!
2012 Escape, 'hunter" (5 sp 4cyl)