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  #1  
Old 12-04-2006, 09:42 AM
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Solar Power (for homes)

Anyone invest in panels for your home? What's the score with solar power for home use, anyway? My curiosity is piqued after receiving a spam email about something called citizenre (http://renu.citizenre.com/index.php) -- apparently they install and maintain panels for "free" while you keep paying the same utility rate for XX number of years. I suppose that means that if the panels make more than your home consumes, they get the payoff from the power company for energy produced.

Anyway, got me to thinking about solar power... just thought I'd ask.

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  #2  
Old 12-04-2006, 12:15 PM
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Currently pv panels are still quite expensive and home systems require a pretty large bank of storage batteries and an inverter. The cost recovery on the investment is practical, even here in Hawaii where hot water heating via solar panels is extremely popular. There needs to be a price reduction in the up front cost of the system before it can make economic, and not merely social, sense.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cscmc1 View Post
...apparently they install and maintain panels for "free" while you keep paying the same utility rate for XX number of years. I suppose that means that if the panels make more than your home consumes, they get the payoff from the power company for energy produced...
Here's what I found interesting on the web site...

Quote:
... "All you are required to do is pay for the electricity generated from these panels, at a fixed rate that is at or below your current electricity price, for up to twenty-five years."
My take is that you will use the same electrical energy to run your house, and now get to pay TWO electrical energy bills:
  • To your utility for energy used during dark, cloudy days and a night, less any generated by the Photovoltaic (PV) cells.
  • To this other company for energy the PV system does generate during the day.
Your total electric bills do not, then, really change much if at all.

Your utility company will lose some revenue, to the extent that the energy used by the house during daylight is produced by the PV cells.

The other energy company gains revenue for energy supplied by the PVs, which I assume is metered and billed as if you were connected to a second energy company.

I see no benefit to the homeowner...
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:52 PM
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I see no benefit to the homeowner...

Only thing that caught my eye was the potential for freezing the rate for 25 years... IL's power rates are about to skyrocket when our rate freeze expires. If this site were the real deal (I have my doubts) and I could get it at current rates, and freeze them for 25 years, I might be interested. Looks like a long shot, though!
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Old 12-04-2006, 01:47 PM
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I think new home builders should give solor panels as an option to new home buyers. At just a few grand more per house, I think it could be a great start to getting our selves on the path to renewable energy.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2006, 02:20 PM
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My thoughts don't speak to this plan in particular but something to consider...

The weakest link in the solar equation is the banks of batterys so why use them...

Just pump what you can't use out into the grid and draw what you can't generate back off of it.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2006, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by A264172 View Post
My thoughts don't speak to this plan in particular but something to consider...

The weakest link in the solar equation is the banks of batterys so why use them...

Just pump what you can't use out into the grid and draw what you can't generate back off of it.
As I understand it, the excess that you generate is pumped back into the grid and the power company pays YOU for it. I assume the batteries are for storing energy for cloudy days (or nighttime). Surely the energy co. doesn't pay the same rate for your surplus energy that you pay them for their power, so there *does* seem to be a benefit to storing power in some way. Maybe the battery (or other power storage) technology will catch up and make solar power more cost effective soon!
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:47 PM
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What would be an improvement would be a PV unit capable of running an electric hot water heater. It would avoid running pipes to the roof for conventional solar hot water. My dad had solar hot water. He took care of it and fully understood its operation and limitations, but its much too complicated to be a mainstream item in homes.

I like the idea of selling power back to the utilities. It would be nice to make the power company a backup to your primary inhome system.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cscmc1 View Post
Surely the energy co. doesn't pay the same rate for your surplus energy that you pay them for their power, so there *does* seem to be a benefit to storing power in some way. Maybe the battery (or other power storage) technology will catch up and make solar power more cost effective soon!
In Ontario the power company will actually pay you *more* for the power you sell to them than they charge you for their power. I don't remember the exact rate, but it is significantly more. It is cheaper for them to buy it from you when you have extra than it is for them to invest in new infrastructure to produce it themselves.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:24 PM
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In Ontario the power company will actually pay you *more* for the power you sell to them than they charge you for their power. I don't remember the exact rate, but it is significantly more. It is cheaper for them to buy it from you when you have extra than it is for them to invest in new infrastructure to produce it themselves.
Now that kind of arrangement I could get used to. I don't imagine it's the case here, but you've convinced me that I need to look into it; thanks!
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:48 PM
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Many times the utility will only pay you for their cost savings of 'avoided' fuel, since they still have to amortize the capital cost of overhead lines and other distribution equipment.

In our area that means a charge of $0.10 to $0.12 for each kWh that you use, but credit of only about $0.03 per kilowatt-hour.

Under that structure, you would pay $0.12 per kWh to the solar company, and receive only $0.03 in return, so it would cost you $0.09 for each kWh that the cells generated.

As I said, I saw no benefit to that scheme...
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2006, 05:34 PM
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As I said, I saw no benefit to that scheme...
Indeed... but I'd like to chew their collective ear about this "pay the same rate for 25 years" bit.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2006, 06:33 PM
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Pardon me while i butt-in.

Years ago I was thinking about retiring onto a houseboat. The roof would be solar panels. The engines ICE-electric. My thinking was like this.

The solar panels create DC. Use the DC current to charge some storage cells. Use the cells to separate 2(O2) from H2 through electrolysis. Use the DC current to run an H2 compressor, exhaust the O2 into the water (and into the bubble tank for my fish).

Run the ICE engine off of H2. The ICE drives a generator for both service and propulsion.

Bot
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:46 PM
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i was of the impression that the utilities had to pay the same rate for extra energy. by law. would that be a local law or national?

back when there were real energy credits i used to do a good business designing passive/ active solar homes.

now i just try to maximize south facing glass whenever possible. on my house (which was designed after the tax credits had been killed) i have 12 large (12sf ea.) south facing skylights which sit at a 45 degree angle to the ground. we spend less to heat the house than to heat water, year round. best though the house in the winter is brighter inside than in the summer. the sun actually penetrates the house all the way and bounces off the north wall.

passive solar integrated into the design of the house in a way that enhances the spirit of the house and its livability.

tom w
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2006, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cscmc1 View Post
...but I'd like to chew their collective ear about this "pay the same rate for 25 years" bit.
My guess: you may pay them the same (low) rate for 25 years, but what you pay the electric utility may be quite different...

This way they get a guaranteed income for 25 years, without worrying about power plant regulations, fuel escalation and other stuff. Neat scheme...

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