Hittin Cuba in the wallet - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 01-14-2007, 10:32 AM

Winners in suits against Cuba stuck in tangle of frozen assets

By Curt Anderson, AP Legal Affairs writer
January 14, 2007

MIAMI (AP) — The day a judge awarded her family $400 million in damages for Cuba's execution by firing squad of her brother, Jeannette Hausler said his death had been vindicated. "We have found justice," she said.

But now comes the hard part for Hausler and other family members of Robert Fuller, a U.S. citizen who owned a plantation in Cuba and was tortured and killed Oct. 16, 1960.

They will try to identify Cuban assets frozen in U.S. bank accounts in an effort to collect any money after the Dec. 14 court ruling.

"How much is there is not clear. The banks are very coy about telling you how much is there, because they don't want to get sued by the Cuban government," said Alfonso Perez, one of the Fuller family's attorneys. "Are we going to try to get some of those assets? Absolutely."

Fidel Castro's serious illness raises another possibility: after his death, Cuba might seek normalized trade and diplomatic relations with the United States, opening an avenue for the Fuller family and others who have won judgments against Cuba to get their money directly from Havana. Castro temporarily relinquished power to his brother, Raul, in July.

"If Cuba wants to be part of the world economic community, if they want to have investments in the U.S. or have U.S. companies invest, I think they are going to have to deal with these judgments one way or another," said Joseph DeMaria, who represents families of two other men killed by the Castro government in 1961.

DeMaria was part of a legal team that in 2006 persuaded a federal judge in New York to order payment of $91 million from frozen Cuban accounts held by JP Morgan Chase Bank to families of two men who died after the failed, CIA-backed invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs in 1961.

The money came from accounts frozen originally during the Kennedy administration, including one containing Cuban payments made to AT&T. The payouts were made to the families of Howard F. Anderson, who was executed for smuggling arms into Cuba, and Thomas "Pete" Ray, a CIA pilot who was shot down during the Bay of Pigs operation.

Both families had won lawsuits against Cuba in Miami-Dade County Circuit Court. In both cases, Cuba did not answer the allegations in the lawsuits or defend itself, which is its common practice whenever the Castro government is sued in the United States.

The cases wound up before a New York federal judge because OfficeMax, through a merger with another U.S. company, asserted property claims for the Cuban Electric Co. that was confiscated by Cuba in the 1960s. OfficeMax raised questions about the validity of the Miami judgments and argued that the money should cover its claims first.

Last week, Cuba's foreign ministry issued a statement through state-run newspapers accusing the United States of robbing the Havana government of its assets and saying it does not recognize the jurisdiction of U.S. courts.

Still, it takes years and a great deal of lawyer time to tap into the Cuban accounts, and the banks resist paying out any money for a variety of reasons, including disputes over whether Cuba or a U.S. company is a deposit's lawful owner.

Some people who have won cases have had less success in collecting, including Ana Margarita Martinez, who was awarded $27 million in 2001 after claiming that Cuba arranged her marriage to Juan Pablo Roque so he could infiltrate and allegedly spy on Miami's exile groups.

President Bush in 2005 ordered the Treasury Department to give Margarita Martinez almost $200,000 out of Cuban accounts, far less than her total judgment. Bush cited a 2002 terrorism insurance law as authority for that move.

At the end of 2005, there was $268.3 million in Cuban assets frozen in U.S. bank accounts, according to the most recent Treasury Department report. Cuba also faces an estimated $7 billion in claims by U.S. corporations and individuals for seizure of property and other assets after the 1959 revolution led by Castro.

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Hatterasguy · #2 01-14-2007, 11:22 AM

I am kind of surprised that money didn't disapear years ago.

This can't be a good thing for trade relations, we need to let the past die. I can see maybe giving the family $1m or setting up a fund to cover there kids college education. $400m seems a bit excessive.

Jim B. · #3 01-15-2007, 05:30 AM

Lawyers, Lawsuits and Cuba

Our expert BENZ-LGB is back, he's gonna be ALL OVER this one.

Oye Ernesto, que piensas?

LaRondo · #4 01-15-2007, 08:10 AM

Funny. Cuba + Wallet, sounds more like an oxymoron.

Dee8go · #5 01-15-2007, 10:47 AM

Yeah, Ernesto must be busy this morning. I figured he'd have already posted a scathing response to this by now!

I think the family should be compensated for the plantation with interest. Never mind the fact that someone was murdered in the process. If the Cuban government wants to resume normal relations with the US, these things should be addressed. People should be compensated, and assets returned.

I think that's really in the best interest of the average Cuban, anyhow. If these folks who were run out of the country returned and were able to restart their original businesses, they would stand a much better chance of succeeding, than if a corrupt, inept government bureacracy continues to try to make a go of them.

t walgamuth · #6 01-15-2007, 07:34 PM

i read and have seen in movies (i know...great source for facts) that there was a huge organized crime presence in cuba before castro took over.

i am wondering how much of that money might have been involved in the richest families who fled when castro took over?

tom w

BENZ-LGB · #7 01-15-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I am kind of surprised that money didn't disapear years ago.

This can't be a good thing for trade relations, we need to let the past die. I can see maybe giving the family $1m or setting up a fund to cover there kids college education. $400m seems a bit excessive.

The money is frozen in American bank accounts. It can't go anywhere.

But now tell me this, based upon what sort of evidence did you come up with the $1m dollar amount?

You think that torture and murder is worth only $1M?

I'd really like to know upon what evidence basis you came up with the $1M figure. You did not hear the evidence that the judge (or jury) heard in order to come up with the $400M figure, so how are you qualified to substitute your judgment for the court's judgment?

I think that you should consider all the evidence, and consider all the facts, before giving an opinion on a subject involving the torture and murder of an innocent man.

Zeus · #8 01-15-2007, 09:11 PM

Ernesto - and here I was all impressed that you didn't take the bait that MedMech laid out with all the subtlety of a wild boar in a china shop...

And you Med - tsk, tsk.

This thread is defining 'borderline'.

It's all good as long as it stays clean, no hits below the belt, you guys know the drill...

We need a new smilie that looks like the girl who holds up the Round cards at a boxing match...

BENZ-LGB · #9 01-15-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

Lawyers, Lawsuits and Cuba

Our expert BENZ-LGB is back, he's gonna be ALL OVER this one.

Oye Ernesto, que piensas?

A money judgment is the only way to hold a tortfeasor accountable for the harm/damages that he has caused. This is true whether the torfeasor is an individual, a corporation (say R.J. Reynolds) or a country.

For example, families of the victims of the Lockerbie (sp?) Pan-Am bombing sued the Lybian government--and won. For years the Lybian government refused to pay any compensation. In 2002 (I may be wrong about the year) Lybia finally relented and decided to pay money to the victims' families. This was done as part of Lybia's efforts to rejoin the world's community.

Cuba's communist government, with or without castro at the helm, needs to make good on these claims. They also need to make good on the claims for the property that they illegally nationalized. My family was not wealthy, not by any stretch of the imagination. But castro's government stole our house and stole the coffee business owned by my father's uncle. I have long ago given up hope of getting compensation for the home we lost. It is water under the bridge. But for the many people whose family members were murdered following phony trials in castro's kangaroo courts, financial compensation would be a nice form of closure.

Incidentally, I cannot see what connection there may be between the presence (strong or otherwise) of the Mafia in Cuba and the issue of compensation. Those guys (the Mafia) took their money out of Cuba long before Castro got settled into power. They were among the first people to bail out of Cuba.

Even if the money in American courts is Mafia money, who cares? As long as it goes to compensate victims, then it is OK. That is the principle behind criminal asset forfeiture laws. Take the bad guys' money away and then they will not profit form their criminal activity.

I think that basing one's opinions, about what should be done to compensate the victims of castro's murderous regime, on The Godfather II is a poor substitute for actual scholarship. Cuba did not have a stronger Mafia presence than Vegas, Atlantic City, New York, or any other major American city.

After all, movie lore holds that American labor unions were (or are) controlled by the mob. Is that any reason for ignoring all the work done by labor unions?

Just a thought.

BENZ-LGB · #10 01-15-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Ernesto - and here I was all impressed that you didn't take the bait that MedMech laid out with all the subtlety of a wild boar in a china shop...

And you Med - tsk, tsk.

This thread is defining 'borderline'.

It's all good as long as it stays clean, no hits below the belt, you guys know the drill...

We need a new smilie that looks like the girl who holds up the Round cards at a boxing match...

Your should still be impressed. I have not gone off on anyone yet.

So far.

I am just surprised that your bud Hattie would weigh in with such a low figure. Especially since he did not hear any of the evidence presented to the judge (or jury).

Zeus · #11 01-15-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Your should still be impressed. I have not gone off on anyone yet.

True enough!

Hatterasguy · #12 01-15-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

The money is frozen in American bank accounts. It can't go anywhere.

But now tell me this, based upon what sort of evidence did you come up with the $1m dollar amount?

You think that torture and murder is worth only $1M?

I'd really like to know upon what evidence basis you came up with the $1M figure. You did not hear the evidence that the judge (or jury) heard in order to come up with the $400M figure, so how are you qualified to substitute your judgment for the court's judgment?

I think that you should consider all the evidence, and consider all the facts, before giving an opinion on a subject involving the torture and murder of an innocent man.

I was expecting you to take this line. Good to have you back btw.

Anyway I am against big payoffs in general I think it just makes the lawyer rich. Was his life worth $400M? Well if he had to potential to earn $400M over the past 50 years yeah ok. If he was making $5k a year back in the 50's when this happend adjust that to $50k today, hmm not seeing it.

My point is doing this is just going to piss of the cubans more. We can't keep digging in the past, what now lets go sue every German who we can tie to the holocost. Then lets start go after former slave owners in this country.

When do we let the past die? Castro is going to die soon, and Cuba will open up, the world moves on.

BENZ-LGB · #13 01-16-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I was expecting you to take this line. Good to have you back btw.

Anyway I am against big payoffs in general I think it just makes the lawyer rich. Was his life worth $400M? Well if he had to potential to earn $400M over the past 50 years yeah ok. If he was making $5k a year back in the 50's when this happend adjust that to $50k today, hmm not seeing it.

My point is doing this is just going to piss of the cubans more. We can't keep digging in the past, what now lets go sue every German who we can tie to the holocost. Then lets start go after former slave owners in this country.

When do we let the past die? Castro is going to die soon, and Cuba will open up, the world moves on.

Well, we do not know what evidence was presented to determine the final judgment. So at this point any talk about whether or not $400M is the correct judgment is just speculation.

What is wrong with lawyers making money? You are beginning to sound like a socialist and that is a troublesome development. People ought to be able to make whatever the market bears. If a lawyer can haul down big bucks, good for him/her. I personally gave up a lucrative career with a big lawfirm because I found that being a prosecutors was more personally rewarding. Sometimes, however, I do miss the big bucks.

It is not up to you to decide when a victim "should let go." That is up to the victim and his/her family. Should Ron Goldman's father "give up" and forget about extracting every possible penny from OJ? Or should he continue to hound OJ to his (OJ's) grave?

The Nazi government stole money from Jews. Jews have been tracking that moeny, all the way to the Swiss banks that accepted those monies in deposit. Good for the Jew, make the Germans and the Swiss pay.

There is no statute of limitations in making wrongdoers pay for the evil they do. I am surprised that you cannot see this.

I am certain, however, that if someone tortured and murdered someone dear and near and dear to you, that you would hound the guilty party to Hell and back if necessary. I would expect no less from you.

So let these people squeeze whatever they can out of that f'ing bastard and his regime.

BTW, the latest news on castro's health is wonderful. Seems like he is dying a very slow and painful death. According to one report, they had to take him back to the OR on 7 different occasions to fix the stitching on his bowels. I was worried that he would die peacefully in his sleep. Apparently there is a God and He is making castro suffer. Oh yeah!

Jim B. · #14 01-16-2007, 02:35 AM

It looks like Fidel Castro's death is imminent from the stories in El Pais, the Spanish paper. It seems his brother Raul the Minister of Defense, is the de facto leader. (Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!)

I wonder what kind of response his death should generate from the USA, especially in view of the President of Iran's overtures to Nicaragua, Venezuela and Cuba, Even with the Medical care and Literacy gains in Cuba under that regime, it's time nevertheless for it to end, it would be a great moment for the Island to get rid of its communist shackles.

BENZ-LGB · #15 01-16-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

I wonder what kind of response his death should generate from the USA, especially in view of the President of Iran's overtures to Nicaragua, Venezuela and Cuba, Even with the Medical care and Literacy gains in Cuba under that regime, it's time nevertheless for it to end, it would be a great moment for the Island to get rid of its communist shackles.

Jim, I too hope that whatever U.S. Administrationis in power at the time of castro's eventual demise, it will use a lot more common sense than the administration in power at the time of Cuba's last regime change.

There are people within the Cuban government who are eager to end the senseless stalemate. Only time will tell, however, whether Cuba will be driven further into its self-imposed isolation or whether Cuba and the U.S. will once again be partners.