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-   -   Energy saving light bulbs, hype or not? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/179850-energy-saving-light-bulbs-hype-not.html)

Vronsky 02-20-2007 05:16 AM

I work for a lighting company, and we really liked Gore's recommendations at the end of his film :D
Compact fluorescent bulbs are a terrific way to save energy, but only use them where the bulb stays on for more than an hour: there's no point in having expensive CFl's in situations where the bulb is switched on for a couple of minutes only: use halogen incandescent instead. Frequent switching ain't good either, and don't use them with presence detection sensors. Standard CFl's aren't suitable for dimming, but dimmable models are getting to the market aswell, and probably more so in the near future. Modern CFl's have the same light quality as incandescent/halogen these days. In the old days, CFl's light was awful. Buy CFl's from a good brand: cheap CFl's don't last long and give dreadful light due to poor colour rendering.
One thing to watch out for when buying CFL's is the colour temparature. Warm white light (like incandescent) has a temp of 2700-3000 Kelvin, while cool white light is 4000 and higher Kelvin. Use the cooler temps for working areas, and the warmer ones for 'cosy' places. Same story for fluorescent tubes. If you use cool fluo light, make sure there's enough light otherwise the place will look gloomy. If you have to use incandescent, consider a halogen version aswell: more energy efficient and last longer. Plenty of types available.
White LED lighting is coming, but still many many years away from being a good alternative for home applications. Don't buy what's offered today, it's rubbish.

Lighting technology offers a great, and relatively easy opportunity to save massive amonts of energy, which is good regardless of any climate change.

t walgamuth 02-20-2007 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy (Post 1424888)
SDL is right below me as I type this. I know tell me about it. I was cleaning off my desk last week and I found a power steering filter!:D You know your are in deep when you find MB parts cleaning your desk.:eek:

i have benz bits in my drawers in my bedroom, at my office, in my closet, sitting beside the front door (mrs. w hates them there) and in all my tool boxes glove boxes and door pockets regardless of the make of the vehicle.

of course my garage is stuffed with odds and ends from 52 pontiac to benz parts. one of these days i will have to take a month or so and put all the extranious stuff on ebay.

tom w

John Doe 02-20-2007 08:04 AM

Can they be retrofitted for a Citation or similar?

Shawn D. 02-20-2007 08:40 AM

I have 75W-equivalent CFLs in my kitchen PAR-30 receptacles, allowing me to have much more light and less heat where the fixture is only rated for 60W. While it's counter to Vronsky's valid suggestion to not use CFLs in situations where the light will only be on for a few minutes, I also installed 75W-equivalents in my garage door openers; now I have more light when I am working in the garage without adding more fixtures, and I haven't had to change them in over three years (I was having to change even "heavy duty" incandescents every three months or so). I have cheapo CFLs in my ceiling fan fixture in the main bathroom and they've lasted five years so far.

However, most of my interior lighting is incandescent because I have much of it controlled by X-10 dimmers. I do have a few 75W-equivalent dimmable CFLs on the way (on sale at BuyLighting.com, BTW) and will see how those work with my X-10 controlled lights in the den.

Since CFLs can exhibit slow ramp-up to full brightness (as many have already mentioned here), I use halogens for my outside lighting. When an outside light is triggered, I want it on now! Also, the outside lighting is controlled by X-10 non-relay-type switches, so I'd have to get dimmable CFLs for those even though I wouldn't be using the dimming feature.

Hatterasguy 02-20-2007 10:02 AM

The tech lover in me really loves these bulbs, I'm going to buy a few more today.:D I can't beleive I want to go shopping for light bulbs but they are pretty cool and I like cool stuff.


I have read that GE makes some of the best ones, since they are a somewhat local company I'll try to buy GE's.

Botnst 02-20-2007 11:55 AM

Most of my Harbor Freight bulbs have lasted over 2 yrs, so they paid for themselves regardless of electricity usage. A few of them crapped-out within a week or so of purchase, but they just handed me some replacements.

B

dannym 02-20-2007 12:32 PM

I tried the Panasonic light capsules and didn't like them. They lasted a long time but the color dimmed down noticeably very fast.

The Panasonic EFA14E28 14w mentioned earlier may work better but personally I don't want anything to do with Panasonic.

I have been using TCP spring lamps which I like. They are the same size as a regular incadescent bulb. They keep their color and last a long time. The output is 13w at 2700K. And their rated longer than those Panasonics at 1200 hours.

The brightness or color is rated in degrees Kelvin. 2700/2800K is cool white. Lower heat equals warmer light.

I also tried the full spectrum bulbs and liked them though I can't remember what brand I bought at the moment.

raymr 02-20-2007 12:49 PM

Incandescent light still has the edge for warm 'festive' lighting. The CFs I have tried so far emit a strange austere glow. What I do now is mix them with standard bulbs. For example our kitchen ceiling fixture has 3 bulbs. One of them is CF, and the light quality looks OK. Its a compromise savings-wise.

The shower stall light is CF. I like the fact that it takes a while for it to come up to full brightness, especially first thing in the morning.

Vronsky 02-20-2007 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannym (Post 1425556)
[...]

The brightness or color is rated in degrees Kelvin. 2700/2800K is cool white. Lower heat equals warmer light.

I also tried the full spectrum bulbs and liked them though I can't remember what brand I bought at the moment.

:no:
2700K is considered warm, much like the standard incandescent bulb .
Go see a 6500K CFl or tube to see what really cool looks like: it 's almost blue. Very popular in the Far- and Middle East. We even sell 12000 and 17000K lamps lately, seems to be beneficial to our biorythm. Lamp brightness is defined in Candela, btw, not the same as colour temp.
Gasdischarge CFl's are never full- or better, continuous spectrum lamps, and the very best reach 90Ra. Good CFl's do 80Ra which is fine for most applications.

Vronsky 02-20-2007 02:12 PM

Check out Ceramic Metal Halide lamps if you're into really high tech professional lighting. Top-end fashion stores usually have them. Wonderful sparkle. GE makes good stuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy (Post 1425411)
The tech lover in me really loves these bulbs, I'm going to buy a few more today.:D I can't beleive I want to go shopping for light bulbs but they are pretty cool and I like cool stuff.


I have read that GE makes some of the best ones, since they are a somewhat local company I'll try to buy GE's.


TwitchKitty 02-21-2007 10:43 AM

Back in 2000 we were living in Vermont for the winter and the local utility company was pushing these things pretty hard. They had an instant rebate at the local hardware store and bulbs were about 34 cents each. I used friends addresses and bought up boxes of these things. Watch for a similar deal and stock-up.

A couple of them have burned-out but it seems they were the ones that were right next to a door that were more likely to go. I think that the vibration from the door slamming shut killed them, maybe cold weather (?). I have bought very few bulbs since but can't comment on energy savings as we don't stay in one place long enough to compare and often our utilities are included with rent.

Dubyagee 02-21-2007 05:51 PM

I Just ordered some LED lights to try. Some Vivid Par plus and some Vivid 30s


http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/index.aspx

http://www.thinkgeek.com/clearance/7aa8/

http://www.smarthome.com/97314a.html

Mark DiSilvestro 02-21-2007 07:10 PM

I've replaced most of the bulbs in my home with compact flourescents, mostly to gain brighter lighting in fixtures that are normally restricted to 60-watt bulbs, and to solve the short life I've experienced with incandescent bulbs, especially in my porch-lights.
However, I had several early failures with the Commercial-Electric brand, made in China, from Home Depot, but I was able to call up the 800 number on the bulbs to get free replacements, which have held up fine so far. I also got a few Chinese-made Sylvanias from a different store, which appear identical to the Commercial-Electric ones. So far no problems with those, or the Mexican-assembled Philips outdoor bulbs I installed in my porch-lights.

Happy Motoring, Mark

t walgamuth 02-21-2007 08:42 PM

i have begun using them in places where the lights are on a lot.

the color rendition is a lto better than it was a few years back.

they last a good long time, but again, the brands are not all equal. i would have to check with my brother to tell you which we found better.

tom w

Mark V 02-21-2007 10:30 PM

cut from the local paper today -


When a bright idea hits politicians in Australia the light over their head will be fluorescent.

Legislation announced yesterday by Australian Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull would prohibit the sale of conventional light bulbs first commercialized by Thomas Edison more than a century ago.

Australia is the first country in the world to establish such a ban.

The decision to phase out incandescent light bulbs by 2010, a measure aimed a reducing electricity demand and greenhouse gas emissions, has sparked calls for a similar ban in Canada.

"I'm very, very supportive of this,'' said Peter Love, Ontario's chief energy conservation officer.

"The opportunity to bring in regulation like this across Canada I think has moved forward,'' he said.

Other jurisdictions are already flirting with the idea.

A California law maker recently introduced the How Many Legislators Does It Take to Change a Light Bulb Act, which aims to eliminate the sale of incandescent bulbs by 2012.

A similar bill has been proposed in New Jersey.

Royal Philips Electronics, one of the world's largest makers of light fixtures, is anticipating it will soon be lights out for the Edison bulb. It said last year it plans to stop making incandescent light bulbs by 2016.

At the same time, startups such as Ottawa-based Group IV Semiconductor Inc. are working on new "solid state'' technologies that aim to be 80 per cent more efficient than incandescent bulbs and last 20 times longer.

Howard Tweddle, director of business development at Group IV, said Australia's legislation goes into effect just when his company's product is expected to hit the market.

"It's great news and good timing, because it will accelerate adoption,'' he said.

About 20 per cent of the world's total electricity consumption is the result of lighting, and more than half of that is based on incandescent technology. The problem, however, is that the old-style bulbs are extremely inefficient -- just 5 per cent of the electricity that flows into them turns into light, with the rest lost as heat.

"It's one of the most wasteful technologies we have, and it's very difficult to get people to reduce their use of these bulbs,'' said Stuart Hickox, founder and executive director of Project Porchlight, an Ottawa-based group promoting the use of energy-efficient compact fluorescent lighting.

He called the Australian ban "brilliant'' and urged Canadian governments to set an equally aggressive target.

"There is space for leadership here,'' Hickox said. "I just wish some government would stand up and say, 'Let's just do this within five years,' and then we can all figure out how to go about it.''

In fact, the federal government has set an internal target, said Anne Wilkins with the office of energy efficiency at Natural Resources Canada.

"We are working on a strategic plan to make sure we eliminate (95 per cent of) incandescent lighting from the marketplace by 2015,'' Wilkins said, adding that the goal would be achieved through a combination of education, marketing, product labelling and regulation. "Regulation by itself doesn't work.''

Love, who sits with Wilkins on the Strategic Lighting Initiative Committee, a group represented by industry and government, said he expects Canada will be pressured to move more aggressively as other jurisdictions ride Australia's coattails.

He said the popularity of compact fluorescent bulbs has reached a tipping point, and innovation around other alternatives, such light-emitting diode fixtures, continues to raise the bar on efficiency.

"I think we're going to see a lot more of this,'' said Love, pointing out that phasing out incandescent lighting will to be a major topic of discussion at a meeting of the International Energy Agency next week in Paris. "I'd like to see (Canada's target) moved up to 2012.''

In Ontario, political leaders were clearly supportive of Australia's move and expressed a willingness to consider similar goals.

"We are studying this,'' said Anne O'Hagan, a spokesperson for Environment Minister Laurel Broten. "Australia is going in the right direction. Maybe a phase-out is the right way to go.''

Premier Dalton McGuinty, in Stratford yesterday, also talked about the plan, saying that if everyone simply replaced an old light bulb with an energy-efficient one, the province could shut down one coal-fired power plant.

But Energy Minister Dwight Duncan, while he applauded Australia's efforts, was reluctant about backing an outright ban.

"I've always believed you get a better response with a teaspoon of honey than a teaspoon of vinegar.''


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