Oh is that right? Well then, I guess the bee-keepers in 20 states and the farmers who depend on them to keep their crops going need you to call right away and explain to them how one pesticide could be used for years and not cause a sudden disappearance of bees while perhaps a mysterious new ingredient is going the final step and making them die off in droves.

I mean, you're the guy with all the answers, right?

whoop, whoop, whoop

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

You reveal your deplorable state of knowledge concerning industrial agriculture.

You do understand that the nature of death is messing-up the nervous system, right? Insecticides are especially good at that. Of the most popular insecticides, neurotransmitter inhibiters are some of the most widely used because they are so effective.

Nearly every farmer who depends on insect pollination also uses pesticides and have been doing so for over 100 years. The pesticides change, but the demand for blemish-free produce does not. In modern industrial agriculture the farmer times pesticide treatment to reduce the chance of harming pollinators, reduce the possibility of run-off and wind drift while maximizing the impact to pest species.

It is possible that some inadvertently applied pesticide is causing the problem but I'll bet it is either a viral pathogen or a pesticide introduced by the beekeeper as a prophylactic to control verroa or some other common disease. I say this for exactly the observations AKLIM mentioned. Inadvertent pesticide application would be extremely unlikely to simultaneously poison so many hives over such a huge geographical area.

B

I've seen vast numbers of honey bees over the last few months gathering in Montana. I don't know what they're up to with their little shaved heads and swastika tattoos, and whatnot. Many of them are carrying weapons and seem to have surly attitudes. I think they're planning something BIG. Oh, yeah! They strut around in their little camo fatigues saluting one another with "Heil Hitler" and all that nonsense. Oh yeah, they're up to SOMETHING alright!

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

By the way, heckler man, exactly who is fixated on who here? What, did I chase away the manliest man of all time? Your bud in arms?

Yeah, well where did Z and Lebenz go?

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Good Lord, would you take a look at yourself?

Speaking of deplorable state of knowledge, soil would almost certainly not be soil w/o untold millions of years of activity by insects, dropping their little feces and dead bodies in a steady shower of stirred up, processed nutrients. And that's to say nothing of earth-worms, though probably not specifically classified as insects.

Along comes man with his big brain, and considers that he knows much better than natural systems ever possibly could about how to shepherd the land. Ever occur to you that some accumulation of pesticide residue could pass a threshold of toxicity and create unforeseen problems? I won't deny that it could be pesticide applied by the bee-keepers themselves.

The assumption that goes "well OF COURSE we need pesticides" could well be a long-term disaster.

Hey farmer farmer
Put away that D.D.T. now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees

Don't it always seem to go...

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

First thing I would look out for is "what changed"? What changed from last year to this year? If my wife has been drinking Starbucks coffee for years and suddenly she has an accident, should I blame Starbucks coffee? First thing I look for is what happened different today? Did she have insufficient sleep? Was the car in perfect working order at the time? Was she going too fast, etc, etc.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Did the insecticides do anything to the Killer bee swarms from Africa?

__________________
"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

And the VIABLE alternative is?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Plenty of insecticide free ag going on. I'm not going to be able to bring you up to speed with a few posts.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I've noticed a high degree of correlation between bee disappearances and the rise in consumption of porn in the US.

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Yes, I know. But at what cost? These items seem higher priced. Also, much as they hate to admit it, their yield is not as high. So, again, what is a VIABLE alternative? If we went strictly to insecticide free ag, can we sustain the population? Would food go up in price to the point more people cannot afford it? If the yield is not as high then you need more land and more farmers than we have currently. Think that won't force some hard decisions to be made?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

You know, the irony of this thread is that I was planning to go to Blockbuster's this evening to grab a copy of "Grumpy Old Men".

Now you can save your money, Paul.

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Did you actually read what I wrote? NOWHERE in what I wrote did I imply or state a value judgement concerning pesticides. I stated facts including the deplorable state of your knowledge.

Grumpy Bot

Here's the big fish...

Now go get the sequel.

__________________
-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html