Honey bees mysteriously disappearing at alarming rates - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BENZ-LGB · #31 03-05-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

By the way, heckler man, exactly who is fixated on who here? What, did I chase away the manliest man of all time? Your bud in arms?

Yeah, well where did Z and Lebenz go?

Calling all mods...calling all mods...calling all mods!!!

cmac2012 · #32 03-05-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

You know, the irony of this thread is that I was planning to go to Blockbuster's this evening to grab a copy of "Grumpy Old Men".

Uh oh...

BENZ-LGB · #33 03-05-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

I've noticed a high degree of correlation between bee disappearances and the rise in consumption of porn in the US.

Dee8go mi amigo...I don't think that even your humor will save this thread from degenerating into yet another battle of "quien es mas macho."

I do like the image of little punk bees marching off into Colorado, swastikas and all.

cmac2012 · #34 03-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Did you actually read what I wrote? NOWHERE in what I wrote did I imply or state a value judgement concerning pesticides. I stated facts including the deplorable state of your knowledge.

You've stated a belief that industrial ag is essential to our survival several times.

Well, lessee, I've read a number of times over the years that pesticides are quite similar to nerve gas used, previously, in war. I believe I read one account that claimed that when nerve gas was banned, the manufacturers saw an opening to branch out into pesticide manuf. I've read of research in "pesticides" that involve the use of pheromones and other odors to confuse insects and effectively prevent breeding. Sure makes sense to me - that is, using something that is not inherently toxic. Since you're the expert, can you tell us why people can supposedly drink a pint of DDT with no ill effects when everything I've read indicates that poison that will kill insects is also toxic to humans?

Pesticide use in Ag is not a specialty of mine, it's true. I do have a good friend who is known internationally as a pioneer and teacher in perma-culture and have spent time at a couple of his farms in eastern WA so I've had some contact with non-industrial ag.

On the subject of reading comprehension, raised by you recently, the article on bees, if you'd read it, made it clear that fecundity problems with queens was likely not the problem.

Present information that you wish, I just wonder at why you cloak it in mocking derision so often. Maybe some need to assert dominance, I don't know....

Botnst · #35 03-05-2007, 06:26 PM

Organophosphates are the class of neurotransmitter inhibitors most widely used in agriculture at present. Chlorinated hydrocarbon's used to be popular because of their persistence. But that persistence also carried environemntal consequences that we in the USA determined were not worth the reward.

Interestingly, the persistent chlorinated hydrocarbon insecticides are the chemicals most effective against the #1 (natural) killer in tropical 3rd world countries, malaria. There is currently an argument raging on Ecolog-l (Ecological Society of America's listserver) about an argument recently put forward that Rachel Carson is one of the greatest mass murderers in history, because banning DDT resulted in literally millions of deaths due to malaria (not to mention dengue and a whole list of other tropical diseases).

I read the part about fecundity, which is a symptom of something. Damned if anybody knows what at this point. So we're left with conjecture, the fertile ground for sales of fear-mongering newspapers.

B

cmac2012 · #36 03-05-2007, 09:37 PM

The part of the article that led me to believe it might be a pesticide nervous system issue of some new variation was this:

Another, particularly sad, possibility is that accidental exposure to a new pesticide may cause non-lethal behavioral changes that interfere with the ability of honeybees to orient and navigate; brain-damaged foraging bees may simply get lost on their way home and starve to death away from the hive.

It's a bit of a stretch to me to call Rachael Carson a mass murderer. More like a gargantuan stretch. Peragro was into that issue and his info and some of the sites he linked to claim that people can guzzle the stuff, no probs. I will not be one of the volunteers to extend those tests.

Could be Carson was completely wrong but intuitively, wholesale spraying of poison onto the earth is a bit alarming. One could imagine all sorts of unforeseen consequences to that. I'm inclined to give her some slack on this.

The DDT coated mosquito nets is a nifty idea. Limits its dispersal into the greater outdoors.

Kuan · #37 03-05-2007, 09:47 PM

There is another alternative. The bees could be repopulating elsewhere.

cmac2012 · #38 03-05-2007, 10:05 PM

Cost of living issues...

aklim · #39 03-05-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Another, particularly sad, possibility is that accidental exposure to a new pesticide may cause non-lethal behavioral changes that interfere with the ability of honeybees to orient and navigate; brain-damaged foraging bees may simply get lost on their way home and starve to death away from the hive.

Is there a new pesticide in question or is it one that has been used all along? Have all other possibilities been ruled out? Are all the people in the 20 affected states doing the exact same thing at the same time to trigger this massive issue? If not, it is poor science that she is spouting. Actually, it is just a SWAG, as far as I am concerned.

cmac2012 · #40 03-05-2007, 11:24 PM

SWAG - what silly wild a$$ guesses? Maybe. Maybe not. You won't know til you research it further.

But you do yourself no favors by dismissing out of hand someone who had researched it in clearly more depth than you have.

aklim · #41 03-05-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

SWAG - what silly wild a$$ guesses? Maybe. Maybe not. You won't know til you research it further.

But you do yourself no favors by dismissing out of hand someone who had researched it in clearly more depth than you have.

When I see something scientific done, I'll acknowledge it. Yes, there are many products out there that has some research done on it too. More in depth than what I have done too. That don't impress me much. If your process is inconsistent and/or sloppy, I am not interested in your conclusions or suppositions or anything you come out with. So yes, I think I am doing myself a favor by dismissing SWAGs out of hand. As I said, show me something scientifically done with proper methodology and we have a discussion.

So tell me, we both know many things out there for sale that someone had researched in clearly more depth that we have, but in a sloppy, inconsistant or slanted way. Do you buy them? I don't. What about that product Bob is hawking? Enzyte, I believe. They researched it in more depth than you or I. Would you buy their claims?

Just because you have done more work than I have doesn't mean you have done the necessary amount of work to be able to honestly say that your discovery is verified in a scientific way and can be reproduced. Till that blessed moment arrives, what you claim is still a SWAG. There is a proper way to do research and there is an improper way. One way is acceptable and the other, well..... In both instances, you may have put more work into it, I'll give you that. However, that might not be enough.

#42 03-05-2007, 11:48 PM

I got a friend who is a master bee keeper for an organic honey farm. He said they aren’t being affected by all of the problems that all of the non organic farms are having. He says once they stopped giving the bee's anti biotic and hormones and change out there combs once every two years there greatest mortality problems disappeared. And all of there hives have greater resistant’s to all of the super virurises, bacteria, ECT. that the majority of bee keeps have problems with these days.

cmac2012 · #43 03-05-2007, 11:51 PM

Aklim! When I wrote:

But you do yourself no favors by dismissing out of hand someone who had researched it in clearly more depth than you have,

I wasn't talking about me but rather the author of the piece I posted. You say you want to see some real science on this? Unless I miss my guess, and I don't, there are some large funds getting behind real science at this moment.

Do a little searching on your own before you scoff about no science being done. You can start with Googling "NPR - living on earth." From there you can get to:

http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=07-P13-00009&segmentID=3

You can listen to the story while you surf the web. NPR is not the last word but it's something.

cmac2012 · #44 03-05-2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawaii!

I got a friend who is a master bee keeper for an organic honey farm. He said they aren’t being affected by all of the problems that all of the non organic farms are having. He says once they stopped giving the bee's anti biotic and hormones and change out there combs once every two years there greatest mortality problems disappeared. And all of there hives have greater resistant’s to all of the super virurises, bacteria, ECT. that the majority of bee keeps have problems with these days.

Hey, intesting stuff.

aklim · #45 03-06-2007, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I wasn't talking about me but rather the author of the piece I posted. You say you want to see some real science on this? Unless I miss my guess, and I don't, there are some large funds getting behind real science at this moment.

Do a little searching on your own before you scoff about no science being done. You can start with Googling "NPR - living on earth." From there you can get to:http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=07-P13-00009&segmentID=3

And I look forward to reading their results.

Not by the writer of that article. All I see is speculation.