This is EXACTLY what I feel as I do towards these pervs... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mgburg · #31 03-05-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

...Being born abroad and naturalized here...till I left that armpit of the world...Not one word about our intangibles. It has always been, at least in asia, "I wish our country were as rich, power or technologically advanced as USA." Maybe it is me but I have never heard them care a whit of our ethics, morals, etc, etc.

You might have brought up an angle some of us have never considered ... the likes and dis-likes of the cultures...

It seems that ALL of us want; Money, power & technology - but we all bring to the table our backrounds, the items that make each of us tick and define what we are and who we are.

If your culture subjected others to a lower standing than your heritage, then your parents' would show you how you needed to live up to your standing.

If your culture showed respect to all others over yourself, then your being would be formed upon those values.

Maybe that's why the US is as varied in its culture as well as its laws. Why do some states have the Death Penalty (DP) while other don't? Why are taxes lower in certain states and higher than others? Why are the maximum speed limits on the Interstate higher in one state and lower just accross the border? The highway didn't change. The politics did.

And WE, the taxpayers, citizens of the US, are what make (or petition for) those laws.

Child molesters (CMs) are treated differently all accross the US. Each state has its own "level" of acceptability of what they will tolerate from CMs. But, based on where and what's involved in each individual case, the laws have to be applied cautiously to ensure a desired result. And in most cases, money comes into play...I'm sure we all realize that to bring a perv. to trial is no small feat and it's expensive as well. And depending on what the final, possible, sentence could be, the politics will enter into the trial, one way or another. The Courts may tell us that politics never enters into how a criminal trial is handled or run, but everyday, you'll see some lawyer get on the tube and tell everyone just the opposite.

It's just that some of us are of the mind that due to all the blending of cultures and whatnot, when it comes to children, there should be NO GRAY AREAS. It's BLACK OR WHITE. And the punishment should be nothing less than the maximum possible.

And with taxes, not going down (ever), but up, the only thing that seems to be worth while is; Terminate the offender and spend whatever money that was going to be used to house the puke for the rest of his un-natural life, use that money, instead, to help and heal (read; long-term therapy) the victim(s) and their disrupted lives.

aklim · #32 03-05-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

It seems that ALL of us want; Money, power & technology - but we all bring to the table our backrounds, the items that make each of us tick and define what we are and who we are.

It's just that some of us are of the mind that due to all the blending of cultures and whatnot, when it comes to children, there should be NO GRAY AREAS. It's BLACK OR WHITE.

And the punishment should be nothing less than the maximum possible.

You can bring all of that. However, people aren't really concerned with more than the tangibles. Seems to me that is all they want. You give us your money, technology, power and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. From my experience, I don't think they are interested in values, culture, etc, etc. They can't eat or spend or use those items. You see, we are rich therefore we cal talk about all these intangibles. For instance, if a guy is starving, does democracy matter? Probably not. Individual rights? Who cares? Can't eat it, can't spend it, can't trade it for something? No value. My experience way back when as far as people wanting to be American is because of the money, power, technology.

The law is stated. It is illegal. Right or wrong are both 5 letter words. When you talk right or wrong, you are talking moral values. I personally never had much faith in them since they can be manipulated. NAMBLA will tell you that they are actually doing good and that a relationship with a young boy is actually beneficial. And therefore, they are morally right and legally incorrect. Also, it helps them sleep better at night going along the lines of them helping kids instead of harming them. So, on that theory, I am actually helping that young boy so it is right. Like I said, too ambiguous for my liking. Don't have much use for morality since it can also differ from person to person based on their values. I don't bother if it is right or wrong. All I know is that it is ILLEGAL in this country. Do it and you risk being caught as a lawbreaker.

But there is the rub. If you give this max punishment, what will you give somebody who murders and what not? Are you saying this is the worst crime? Are you saying that this perp took a life and therefore you are justified taking his? See, where are you puting this event on the crime scale?

Hammertime · #33 03-05-2007, 09:26 PM

Aklim,
I believe we are getting lost with how the watch is built and forgot you came over to check the time...
Following your logic you are stating two things that I hear, firstly that this crime shouldn't be treated any differently as let's say rape or murder. I also hear that because of different "cultures" and "values" it is more acceptable so to speak in other cultures.

Horse***** I declare, and I will elaborate.

To begin I do not believe anyone here on the thread disagrees with you about those other crimes are equally evil. I am only saying for me personally I feel these violent crimes as a whole is like an onion with many different layers of evil. But a crime against a kid, to me, is the worst of the worst.

As a taxpayer and a contributor to our society I should be able to say hey, enough is enough with this *****...off these dirtbags and allocate resources in other more needed areas. If you are here in the US I feel you should forfiet your right to your rights if you decide to commit such an attrocity if caught redhanded.

Perhaps I can explain it like this, I feel if one is caught redhanded, smoking gun, committing a violent crime where you kill someone. A crime where you disturb another citizens quality of life by creating strife....flat out, you die...quickly, no 100+ appeals and years of sitting around on taxpayers dime.

But when you get caught doing this attrocity to a kid, well then you should be tortured, humiliated publicly and yes, killed...this of course is my opinion.

Your second point about culture.

That in itself is the problem, some people come to the US and still think they are in their old country and can do as they like. For the record I am not aware of any cultures that "allow" or "accept" these crimes against kids. Perhaps in many a decade ago things were different with young brides but as a society we evolve in our thinking and it is unsettling to believe that even today people feel this is ok anywhere in this world. This is a crime against humanity, not to downplay rape or murder, but this, well this crime is new level of evil that needs to be destroyed.

As for that NAMBLA crap is a bunch of these freaks trying to console each other and try to normalize their perverse behaviour. They trade information and get organized like it was the boys scouts. They should wait until the meet and go in and wire the place to blow to kingdom come...of course this is my opinion only..

On the chance of me being obtuse to the situation, please Aklim point out to us what society or culture feels exploitation of kids is acceptable...

mgburg · #34 03-05-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

...NAMBLA will tell you that they are actually doing good and that a relationship with a young boy is actually beneficial. And therefore, they are morally right and legally incorrect...

First off, NAMBLA is a joke...if Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt said they were NAMBLA members, I'd puke first, then puke again...NAMBLA was given the bully pulpit by none other than Hugh Hefner back in the 70's or early 80's. At that point, I'm pretty sure that was the last time I willing "read" any of their articles. But, to say, or even suggest, that NAMBLA has a right to their scuzzy life style? I hope when they're caught in the act, they go down hard, they go down bad and there's no return from the hell they are putting others in. I don't want to hear sob-stories about how they were abused and driven to the life-style they're into...

Tuff' 5hit! If they heard, and knew it was bad, what were they waiting for? A Free-clinic shrink? (Mindfawk as you like to say...

) Enough w/the free-rides to guilt-free land.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

...If you give this max punishment, what will you give somebody who murders and what not? Are you saying this is the worst crime? Are you saying that this perp took a life and therefore you are justified taking his? See, where are you puting this event on the crime scale?

Myself? I'm putting Child-molesters at the top of the hit list. End of story.

As for murderers and the what-nots? There are many gray areas. Each case should be handled differently.

My position?

If a child is murdered, Death Penalty (PD).
Child raped? DP.
Child kidnapped and terrorized? DP.
ANY CRIME INVOLVING A CHILD - INCLUDING CAR-JACKING...DP.

If a child is involved in the commission of the murder, rape, kidnapping, terrorizing or car-jacking, they should be put away for a minimum 25-30 years. WHY? They are screwed up so bad that no amount of mindfawking (your term) is going to put their 'chit straight.

Let's use your example here: Michael Fey, I'm sure, got plenty of therapy after he got back to the US (His mommy probably kissed his "boo-boos" on his @55 when he got home...), and look at where he's at now. Doing sad impersonations of Richard Pryor. Probably can only count to 6 if he drops his pants...maybe 5-1/2. And who cares? Everyone wanted him to be given a break...he broke the law in another land. Figured 'cause he was an American, money and power was going to save his skin. It didn't. Who's fault is that?

The jist of this thread was about pervs going after underaged kids. If the vic is a kid - the perp should be "offed."

We're not here trying to re-write the penal-code. We're hear stating the fact that we feel a certain way about crimes against children. Whether the vic lives or dies, the perp needs nothing less than death himself.

After he's out of the picture, the vic MIGHT have a chance at rehab, but only if he/she lived and the state will spare no expense in helping the victim.

Until that happens, the whole messy business of institutionalizing the perp, coddling his @55, giving him the benefit of the doubt (and keeping the "mindfawks" rolling in the dough, will continue, ad nauseum.

If they want to release the "treated" ones (And I'm using that term VERY LOOSELY...) back into society, I'd release them only on one condition...their first 10 years out of the hospital is in the homes of whatever mindfawk pronounced them "cured" as long as they continue with their outpatient therapy and drugs. If the doctors don't want, or trust, the guy in his neighborhood, why should we be forced to?

Put him back in or put him down.

cmac2012 · #35 03-05-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Does this mean his offense is on the same level as murder? Hell, they don't have automatic death sentences for murderers so you are saying that his offense is worse than murder. IOW, murder is basically 2nd rate? Just as tho I slipped roofies into some girl's drink and have my way with her?

Main reason not to give death for child molesting or rape is that the rapist would be more likely to dispose of the only witness.

Still, the thought of devoting those kind of public funds to that type of guy, whose life is almost over, seems a bit whack.

aklim · #36 03-06-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammertime

Following your logic you are stating two things that I hear, firstly that this crime shouldn't be treated any differently as let's say rape or murder. I also hear that because of different "cultures" and "values" it is more acceptable so to speak in other cultures.

To begin I do not believe anyone here on the thread disagrees with you about those other crimes are equally evil. I am only saying for me personally I feel these violent crimes as a whole is like an onion with many different layers of evil. But a crime against a kid, to me, is the worst of the worst.

Perhaps I can explain it like this, I feel if one is caught redhanded, smoking gun, committing a violent crime where you kill someone. A crime where you disturb another citizens quality of life by creating strife....flat out, you die...quickly, no 100+ appeals and years of sitting around on taxpayers dime. But when you get caught doing this attrocity to a kid, well then you should be tortured, humiliated publicly and yes, killed...this of course is my opinion.

That in itself is the problem, some people come to the US and still think they are in their old country and can do as they like. For the record I am not aware of any cultures that "allow" or "accept" these crimes against kids. Perhaps in many a decade ago things were different with young brides but as a society we evolve in our thinking and it is unsettling to believe that even today people feel this is ok anywhere in this world. This is a crime against humanity, not to downplay rape or murder, but this, well this crime is new level of evil that needs to be destroyed.

On the chance of me being obtuse to the situation, please Aklim point out to us what society or culture feels exploitation of kids is acceptable...

Rape, statutory or not you are not dead but alive. Not murder. You are taking a life there. There is absolutely no chance of bouncing back from that one in any way, shape, form or degree that I know of. It is more acceptable in other cultures who have different values. So, keep it there then, if you must do such activities. Plain and simple.

I would disagree with you on that. I don't see it as equally evil. Kids that are molested are still alive. Raped people are still alive. Murdered people are not. So how can a statutory rape be the worst of the worst?

OK. Victim in case 1 is dead. Kid is still alive. Yes, there is a disruption in both cases. But to say that in the case of rape, the disruption is so severe that it is worse that killing a person? I can't see that. I'd rather be raped than dead, if I had to choose. Either way I won't be the same but in one case, there is a future while in the other, there isn't. Therefore, I cannot see a more severe punishment for a lessor crime. One is totally removing a person's future. The other is screwing it up some.

Well, as they say, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". When in their home country, they can do what they want. Here, they best follow the rules of the land. I had a license for CCW in SD. Doesn't mean I can do it here in WI.

Try Thailand, for example. You could get a virgin if you wanted to pay more money. These were kids offered by their parents. Enforcement is a joke at best. People there seem to accept the situation. IIRC, Philippines is about the same. Of course, on paper, the leaders say it is a bad situation. They don't crack down on it. Hell, they are probably in on it. So, as I said, it is illegal in this country. If you need to and can afford it, take it there instead of here. BTW, back in 1990, my roomate was offered a 10 yo by her mother in Mexico for the princely sum of $300. So, I'll have to ask you, what do you mean by "acceptable"? Is it defined as what the leaders say or what the people actually do?

aklim · #37 03-06-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

First off, NAMBLA is a joke...if Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt said they were NAMBLA members, I'd puke first, then puke again...NAMBLA was given the bully pulpit by none other than Hugh Hefner back in the 70's or early 80's. At that point, I'm pretty sure that was the last time I willing "read" any of their articles. But, to say, or even suggest, that NAMBLA has a right to their scuzzy life style? I hope when they're caught in the act, they go down hard, they go down bad and there's no return from the hell they are putting others in. I don't want to hear sob-stories about how they were abused and driven to the life-style they're into...

Tuff' 5hit! If they heard, and knew it was bad, what were they waiting for? A Free-clinic shrink? (Mindfawk as you like to say...

) Enough w/the free-rides to guilt-free land.

WHY? They are screwed up so bad that no amount of mindfawking (your term) is going to put their 'chit straight.

Let's use your example here: Michael Fey, I'm sure, got plenty of therapy after he got back to the US (His mommy probably kissed his "boo-boos" on his @55 when he got home...), and look at where he's at now. Doing sad impersonations of Richard Pryor. Probably can only count to 6 if he drops his pants...maybe 5-1/2. And who cares? Everyone wanted him to be given a break...he broke the law in another land. Figured 'cause he was an American, money and power was going to save his skin. It didn't. Who's fault is that?

We're hear stating the fact that we feel a certain way about crimes against children. Whether the vic lives or dies, the perp needs nothing less than death himself.

After he's out of the picture, the vic MIGHT have a chance at rehab, but only if he/she lived and the state will spare no expense in helping the victim.

Until that happens, the whole messy business of institutionalizing the perp, coddling his @55, giving him the benefit of the doubt (and keeping the "mindfawks" rolling in the dough, will continue, ad nauseum.

If they want to release the "treated" ones (And I'm using that term VERY LOOSELY...) back into society, I'd release them only on one condition...their first 10 years out of the hospital is in the homes of whatever mindfawk pronounced them "cured" as long as they continue with their outpatient therapy and drugs. If the doctors don't want, or trust, the guy in his neighborhood, why should we be forced to?

Put him back in or put him down.

It is like valium. It helps a person sleep at night. If those people felt they were hurting kids, they would not be able to sleep so well. This way, they can sleep better at night knowing that they are not harming kids and actually helping them. Molesters are still people and need their valium. Hitler also felt that he was doing the world a favor. I have tried to google the Hugh Hefner and NAMBLA connection but I haven't found much. Can you hook me up?

Maybe so. But they will at least have some sort of a life. If a person is killed, what sort of a life will they have, mindfawk or no?

Bill C wanted Fey to be given a break as an indication of how successful he was as a foreign negotiator. Singapore govt did give him a break and Bill C some face. Reduced the sentence from 6 lashes to 4. Just so you know, you have to be medically certified fit for each lash. People have died from a lash even after being certified fit. Don't think he figured that he could get away with it because of power or money or anything. He just tried the "Classic American Defense". He claimed he had ADD.

I hear that. What I don't hear is why that offense warrants a more severe sentence than murder itself? You yourself said that the child can be rehabbed. Can the dead be rehabbed by any means you know of?

Me personally, I don't believe either the victim or the perp can or should be mindfawked seeing as how I don't believe in psychologists, psychiatrists or any of those funky things.

aklim · #38 03-06-2007, 12:58 AM

OK. Here is the difficulty I am having from a logical perspective.

Rape, statutory or otherwise, male or female, will reduce the quality of life for the victim.

Murder ends the life of the victim. No ands, buts or ifs.

How can we say that rape merits a punishment equal to or more severe than murder? How can we punish a person more for less? If I broke a person's spine, I am reducing his quality of life. Killing the person removes life. How can anyone logically justify that breaking a person's spine merits an equal, much less harsher punishment than killing that person? I don't follow. Only thing I can think of is that it is the emotional appeal of the victim being a child that people scream for a harsher punishment.