Who else is a salesman?
 

Related to my job-hunting thread, I was wondering who else here is a salesman. Who are you? What to you sell?

Also, I have been looking for some type of professional sales organization with which to associate myself. So far the few I have run across were pretty bogus.

I have been a Salesman, a Sales Manager, a General Manager with a Sales Force, and am a Management Consultant in my industry. I know nothing about you, or your employment history. Here is my question. "Why are you asking?"

I know this seems blunt, but if you already have sales experience, and were a success in sales, then you would already have a network of contacts, and know the ropes of finding a sales job. If this is true, then you would simply use a head-hunter, or classifieds, or Monster.com etc. to apply for jobs. The problem, from the point of view of the employer, is finding those rare individuals that have the sales gift. Those people can sell almost anything.

If you do not have sales experience, then I think it would be very difficult to break into sales and make any money. Obviously, everyone has to start somewhere, but I think it's often after gaining some knowledge within a company and then transferring to sales.

Reality is that finding that job without some networking and referral is very very tough. I can remember placing an ad for a salesman in just the local newspaper in a town of about 50,000 people. I must have received 200 resumes. After tossing all but about 25, due to almost total lack of the qualifications we had listed, we then worked it down to say 10 that seemed worth an interview. Of those 10 all but 3 were pretty much laughable. We actually ended up hiring 2 really good guys. One had been a sales manager for a national sporting goods manufacturer. The other sold Fork trucks, had lot's of existing customer contacts, and was doing well. Both were successful and one is now a General Manager for that same company.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

I'm going into sales full time in about a month.

Re/Max residential and commercail sales.

As far as originzations the NAR of course, and in a couple of years CCIM.

Getting the position is the simple part, all you need to join Re/Max is a check. Making good money is where the hard part starts.

Steve, I have been selling photographic products for 23 years. Lately, I've been selling cabinets, sinks, doors, lighting, etc. specialty products to general contractors by getting architects to specify them in their bid documents. The industry is in serious decline so I am looking for a way to transfer the skills and contacts I have to something similar with a brighter future.
In other words I'm looking for the right situation in which I can transfer the maximum of my experience, skills, contacts, etc. Because what I do is not as straightforward as most types of selling, it's not as easy to find the job I'm looking for.

I work for REI and sell bikes, skis, snowboards, roof racks and a bunch of other stuff. It is pretty fun because it is all stuff I enjoy and all my co-workers are pretty laid back, and they enjoy the place. The treat us well, so everyone is happy.

Ok, 23 years selling experience, great! That's a valuable and marketable skill. So maybe first, we drop the word selling, I never liked that term, and substitute problem solver. When I smooth talked my way, from Plant Controller to Salesman years ago, I would tell prospective customers that if I couldn't come up with several non-price benefits to justify them switching to my company, then they should just throw me out. I told them I wanted to be there go to person for packaging problems. Sounds like that's what you like to do.

So somehow you have to find a problem solving job that actually pays a salary + commission. All the sales jobs that are easy to get like Real Estate, or Car Sales are easy because it's no skin off their butt if you fail.

You probably have already done this, but you have to ask all of your network for ideas.
I'm not really recommending this because it's as cutthroat as it gets, but packaging sales can be quite the creative challenge. Maybe even an inside sales job could work out. I would think you ask everyone you come into contact with as to whether they know of any good sales opportunities.

Wish I had the answer for you, but at least you have the experience.

Steve

Thanks, Steve. Yes, I have succeeded by being a problem-solver. I am attempting to create a job for myself by selling companies that manufacture products similar to the ones I'm already selling on the idea that they can expand their businesses by incorporating the solutions I have come up with.

This was simply an effort on my part to solicit fresh ideas from people I know. It sounds like you're pretty good at what you do. I appreciate your input. There are a lot of thoughtful, knowledgeable folks here. I value the opinions and suggestions of most of the people who post here. Thanks.

I don't sell people anything, I get them happly involved. Its not a commision its a fee or a fee for service, and its not a contract its the paper work.:D

Cna you guess where that comes from? :D

My first father-in-law, a very successful car salesman, once told me he didn't sell cars. He allowed people to purchase them. He was a real character!

We're still great friends. I haven't talked to his daughter in years, though.

While technically I'm a sales manager for our golf/turf department, I do handle telephone and walk-in customer sales at our warehouse. We sell professional grade turf maintenance products (fungicides, herbicides, insecticides, fertilizer, soil amendments, organics) and seed mixes (lawn, conservation, wetlands, wildflower, bentgrass) to golf courses, municipalities, sports field managers and lawn care companies as well as distributing the same products to independent garden centers, hardware stores and nurseries for resale.

Since we prefer to cater to the professional trade we don't advertise our location for retail sales (read homeowners) but we certainly don't turn them away either. Since my office is right next to the salesroom I also deal with the walk-in flower and vegetable seed customers.

Hatteras, wrote "I get them happly involved. Its not a commision its a fee or a fee for service, and its not a contract its the paper work.".

I know you are a young guy just starting out. I read what you wrote, and immediately concluded that you have already started to drink the cool aid.

"Happily involved?" What does that mean? Keep them laughing and dazzled so they don't ask any hard questions? Sorry, even though I was one, I pretty much hate pure sales bull**** artists. I'm not saying you are one, but if you don't watch yourself, they will make you into one.

When your real estate trainers tell you to never say contract, when, in fact, it is definitely a binding legal contract, they are telling you to skirt the truth. Commission and fee are less deceptive.

In my opinion, the straight truth is a better approach.

Steve

As a professional headhunter I'm in sales, and ultimately my product is people. Ten years into this profession (backed up by three additional years in the auto industry as a marketing manager) have taught me two valuable keys to success in sales.

1) Ask your customer questions. Lots and lots of questions. I believe that a great salesperson spends more time asking questions than answering them. You have to truly invest the time in understanding not just what your client needs, but why they need it and what will happen to them if they don't get what they need. In my line of work that means understanding the needs of two parties, the jobseeker and the employer. Ask them tough questions that get to the root of their needs. Make them really think about what is important.

2) Understand the difference between price and value. If your customer just wants to talk price, then you haven't built value into what you are doing for them. Which means you probably don't understand their needs properly. Price is what you pay for something. Value is what you get in return for your money that is worth more to you than the money itself.

Sales professionals who take the time to build value into their service and truly understand the needs of their customers don't have to "close". The close just happens because you've understood the need of your customer and then introduced them to a solution that is worth more to them than the money they're paying you. A lot of salesmen pride themselves in being "closers", in their abiltiy to "get them to sign on the line that is dotted". I pride myself on being an "opener", not a "closer". I do the hard work at the beginning and then just watch it come together naturally.

In time your client will come to look at you as a partner, not a service provider. That is where the real success lies.

That's why I like my Ace hardware. :) Guy showed my wife how to change the sump pump, and she did! Thanks Lomon.

I do inside sales. Customers call us and we set up their trucking and hot shot requests. Sometimes I go out and take some of the customers i brought here to lunch, or take them kolaches or donuts for breakfast. I also pass out lots of tickets to Astros games, tickets to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, Corteo (the latest Cirque de Soleil (SP?)) or the Grand Prix of Houston.
Whatever large event that's happening here in town my customers usually get
to go. Twice a year we also take some of the biggest customers to Vegas.

I agree with jloman, ask questions of your customer! They like to feel that you're interested in them and in my line of work, the questions are very important. If we miss a detail needed to complete a delivery we look like fools! Being meticulous when it comes to interacting with the customer is very important. At our comapny we don't do it any other way.

Well said!
 

This has always been my attitude about what I do and it has worked very well for me. It's not a "quick answer," but it is the best way to do business. I always liked the philosophy of the fellow who started Dominos Pizza. I think it was he who said we're not selling ONE pizza, we're selling a lifetime of pizzas. Everything was directed towards building a relationship with a customer that was enduring.

Good advice, Steve. It really irritates me when a sales person uses euphemisms like "investment" for depreciating goods they're trying to sell me like a car or at TV, etc. It's better to just call a spade a spade. Just focus on what your customer has told you is important to them. They'll let you know what language they want to hear your offer in.

Jlomon wrote about never having to close. I think that may have something to do with the recruiting industry. You don't have to close because you are largely simply bringing the candidate and the employer together. I've used head-hunters in the past and, at least in my industry, after the initial introduction they pretty much did nothing other than send me a bill for 30% of the first year's salary.

In my sales experience as a sales manager, one of the things that new salespeople are afraid to do is ask for the order. You need to close and ask for the order. If you were to ask purchasing agents about salespeople's mistakes, failure to ask for the order would be common. The other would be failure to listen. The art of the open ended question so very important.

Steve

Diesel4me wrote about giving customers perks like tickets and donuts.

Ah, the good old days. That sort of thing is now often forbidden by corporate policy.
Some even outlaw accepting a lunch paid for by the vendor. It does go on in secret and
obviously is still the rule in some industries.

I remember asking the President of the multi-plant company I worked for as the new plant GM, what this expense item for $8,000 was. He replied,"It was to send Rudy and his family on vacation." Rudy was the buyer for a major customer. Rudy was on the take.
Later Rudy was fired for being on the take from several vendors. We were blamed and lost the account forever.

Nice while it's working, bad when you get caught.

Steve

Perks ARE the rule in our industry it seems.

I have only one customer that has a policy against taking perks from vendors but the main contact i have known there for more than 15 years goes to lunch with me from time to time on the company credit card and i also give her tickets and stuff. We get around her company policy by just saying that she and I have been personal friends for a long time.

I'm taking a customer to lunch today and if it were not for the perks she gets, she might just use someone else for her trucking. She has come to expect the perks because I brought her from my old job and we always sent food and stuff to her office at least weekly.

The one MAIN thing that keeps customers here is the attention to details. I have worked for most of the major hot shot companies in this market and I can honestly say that no one that I know of treats the customer better and with more care and concern than we do. We have more people here (lots of companies skimp on employees to save $$) to handle any situation and when it gets super busy on the phones and on the road.

Then what they have failed to do is build value into their service by explaining what they have done to present the candidate to you. You have no idea the amout of work that goes into bringing the right candidate to the right employer for the right reasons. Any time it has gone that smoothly for you it is because the recruiter did their job correctly.

I am, every morning I wake up i sell myself to the Universe. Oh wait that didn't sound right....How about- Sell yourself to the challenges of the day....yeah that's it...

Yeah, that's better. I THOUGHT you were a photographer . . .

"Then what they have failed to do is build value into their service by explaining what they have done to present the candidate to you. You have no idea the amout of work that goes into bringing the right candidate to the right employer for the right reasons. Any time it has gone that smoothly for you it is because the recruiter did their job correctly."

No, I do have an idea. I am certain there is a lot of expense finding candidates, researching there work histories, and finding them employment homes. I do not believe there is a close required because the close is in the decision by the employer to offer a job and the conversation, at least in my corporate hiring experience, is between the candidate and me as the person doing the hiring.

My comment about fee structure is simply that many headhunters I have dealt with frankly were nothing more than people feeding me names. What they did was work the phones attempting to find people who would jump ship for greener pastures. They were obviously also trying to entice my employees. We also always negotiated a lower fee structure upfront.

Anyway, my point is that in sales you have to close and ask for the order.

Steve

Yes, and you have to know when to stop talking and pocket the check, P.O., etc. I've seen more than a few salesmen talk someone into a sale, only to keep talking themselves right back out of it.

Deego - Exactly right!

Steve

I used to think there was some kind of "magic" to being successful at sales. Now, I know it's essentlially a lot of hard work, persistence, and some common sense. . . Oh, now that I said that, I'm thinking maybe it IS magic.

I agree, I was poking fun at Tom Hopkins. Everyone in sales seems to have read his stuff at some point.:D

No its not practical, most of the stuff he wrote he never actualy used. The way he makes it out I'm supposed to walk around a house with some clients and fill out a purchase contract as we walk through. Totaly impractical, would never consider doing it.

I don't use the term investment losely, but if I think you will make money off a property I call it what it is, an investment. Those of us in real estate do sell investments.


You do need to know how to close people a bit, sometimes they just need to be pushed into the right direction. But most of the time you show them a house they like and if its a couple of family they start to close eachother. You just follow them around making small chat until they want to talk about buying it.