Salman Rushdie, a Knight in Her Majesty's service

[cmac2012]

Some talk on the radio shows speculating on the possibility that the recent terror strikes in the UK might be related to giving Rushdie a knighthood.

I'm with John le Carré regarding Rushdie: it (the Satanic Verses) was a dumb thing to do. Letters between the two of them below.

Of course the Islamo revenge brigade is whacko but I don't think that refraining from poking them in the eye is the same as appeasement.

American and European Christendom don't respond well to what are widely perceived to be cheap insults towards JC. Witness the furors surrounding John Lennon's "we're more popular than Jesus" remarks and Sinead O'Connor's tearing up the photo of the pope.

I think Lennon's remarks were innocuous. O'Connor is mostly twit, IMO and of course, the response of Christendom to both incidents was not nearly as overblown as that of the Islamo world to Rushdie.

All in all, I go along with Lao Tzu: the least effective way to motivate people to improve their behavior is to condemn their conduct.

Originally published in The Guardian:

November 18, 1997.
John le Carré complains that he has been branded an anti-Semite as a result of a politically correct witch-hunt and declares himself innocent of the charge. It would be easier to sympathize with him had he not been so ready to join in an earlier campaign of vilification against a fellow writer.

In 1989, during the worst days of the Islamic attack on The Satanic Verses, le Carré wrote an article (also, if memory serves, in The Guardian) in which he eagerly, and rather pompously, joined forces with my assailants.

It would be gracious if he were to admit that he understands the nature of the Thought Police a little better now that, at least in his own opinion, he's the one in the line of fire.

Salman Rushdie



Novemer 19, 1997.
Rushdie's way with the truth is as self-serving as ever. I never joined his assailants. Nor did I take the easy path of proclaiming him to be a shining innocent. My position was that there is no law in life or nature that says great religions may be insulted with impunity.

I wrote that there is no absolute standard of free speech in any society. I wrote that tolerance does not come at the same time, and in the same form, to all religions and cultures, and that Christian society too, until very recently, defined the limits of freedom by what was sacred. I wrote, and would write again today, that when it came to the further exploitation of Rushdie's work in paperback form, I was more concerned about the girl at Penguin books who might get her hands blown off in the mailroom than I was about Rushdie's royalties. Anyone who had wished to read the book by then had ample access to it.

My purpose was not to justify the persecution of Rushdie, which, like any decent person, I deplore, but to sound a less arrogant, less colonialist, and less self-righteous note than we were hearing from the safety of his admirers' camp.

John le Carré


And then Christopher Hitchens weighed in with his customary thoughtful and restrained prose:

November 20, 1997.
John le Carré's conduct in your pages is like nothing so much as that of a man who, having relieved himself in his own hat, makes haste to clamp the brimming chapeau on his head. He used to be evasive and euphemistic about the open solicitation of murder, for bounty, on the grounds that ayatollahs had feelings, too. Now he tells us that his prime concern was the safety of the girls in the mailroom. For good measure, he arbitrarily counterposes their security against Rushdie's royalties.

May we take it, then, that he would have had no objection if The Satanic Verses had been written and published for free and distributed gratis from unattended stalls? This might have at least satisfied those who appear to believe that the defense of free expression should be free of cost and free of risk.

As it happens, no mailroom girls have been injured in the course of eight years' defiance of the fatwah. And when the nervous book chains of North America briefly did withdraw The Satanic Verses on dubious grounds of "security," it was their staff unions who protested and who volunteered to stand next to plate-glass windows in upholding the reader's right to buy and peruse any book. In le Carré's eyes, their brave decision was taken in "safety" and was moreover blasphemous towards a great religion! Could we not have been spared this revelation of the contents of his hat - I mean head?

Christopher Hitchens

Hitchens crows that no mail room girl has been hurt by Rushdie's book but if indeed attacks are being motivated by Rushdie's knighthood, that might change. Of course, a lot of the radical Islamists would find a reason anyway, I'm just not sure I see any value in pouring gas on the fire by giving record-setting pompous ass Rushdie a friggin' knighthood, a sort of grade inflation.

More at:

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/burning/le-carre-vs-rushdie.html

[Jim B.]

I think the radical fringe element has hijacked that religion worldwide, and its moderate element has done nothing to respond to it.

"Behead ALL those who say Islam is a violent religion" read one sign at a Protest March in England.

The Pope's remark on the violent tenets of Islam led to the assassination of a Catholic nun; Theo Van Gogh's movie about the Islamic mistreatment of women got him knifed in the heart in Holland by an Islamic fanatic.

The cartoon caper caused riots and violence all over the world. In Iraq, children are given bomb vests to wear and instructed "Push the button and flowers will shoot out at the Americans"

Taliban gunmen shot into a schoolyard full of children and teachers to try and kill them because they didn't want them in school.

Islamic immigrants are raping Swedish schoolgirls because they think they are whores anyway because of how they dress in Sweden, their own country.

Somalia, Indonesia, Darfur, Mindinao, in the Phillipines, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon, all awash in violence, all with Muslim militants.

My God, even the Palestinian flag of Hamas has a damned AK47 machine gun on it.

Rushdie was condemned to death for a book he wrote, by Khomeini.

Please pardon us for getting the idea that Islam seems to present itself as a religion awash in blood, terror, torture, revenge, hatred (especially of Jews) and conquest.

One of these days someone will get fed up and blast that big black monolith in Mecca to smithereens, and it would serve them right, many people would probably feel.

Really who cares what happened to Mohammed's grandson 1,200 years ago?
Islamists are at war with one another about it.

Whether you approve of President Bush's tactics in responding to it, or not, you have to agree that we are in a war with radical Islam, and not by our choosing.

[cmac2012]

What you speak of is horrendous indeed. My point is I don't think Rushdie's book accomplished any sort of progress. The man exudes condescending arrogance.

On the Swedish schoolgirls getting raped, I'm part Swedish and I only hope and pray that Swedish men will put a stop to that. Tolerance has its limits.

If we in America weren't so willing to take in Mexican laborers to do the work we've become too hoity toity to do and likewise with the Europeans taking in Muslim labor, a lot of these problems we're both experiencing would have never come about.

Coming to an acceptable equilibrium around these issues will not be easy. I don't think giving a Knighthood to a bomb thrower like Rushdie is part of that process.

[BENZ-LGB]

Originally Posted by Jim B.

I think the radical fringe element has hijacked that religion worldwide, and its moderate element has done nothing to respond to it.

...

"Behead ALL those who say Islam is a violent religion" read one sign at a Protest March in England.

...

Whether you approve of President Bush's tactics in responding to it, or not, you have to agree that we are in a war with radical Islam, and not by our choosing.

No truer words have been written on this Forum for a long, long time.

Jim you are absolutely correct.

Carlos, just when I thought that you and I could see eye to eye on things, you go and post something like this.

We have the right, nay we have an obligation, to call a spade a spade (and no, that's not a racist remark!) whenever we see it.

Islam, in spite of ll of its pretentions to being a religion of peace and tolerance is in fact violent and intolerant religion. Even if it was not, the "moderate" elements have allowed the violent faction to hijack their religion. And they have not even raised a whisper of protest about it.

Yes, many atrocities were committed by "religious" men over the years. But I didn't see many Catholics set bombs when Sinead tore pics of the Pope and I didn't see anyone calling for a fatwa against the Fab Four for their statements about Christ.

If you cannot see the difference you are blind to the evils of the world.

[cmac2012]

Relax me bruder. When I read about Scandinavian women getting gang raped because they don't wear head scarves, I start thinking about baseball bat on Islamo head.

It may very well come down to major purges of foreigners from those countries. One reason I was against the war in Iraq is because I figured that one of the most long lasting effects of it would be our taking in untold thousands of Iraqi refugees after the war went bad: "can't let those who fought with us just be slaughtered" and all that.

Oh boy, how many of those immigrants are going to start behaving one day like those in Sweden?

I don't like this crap. My point is that I don't think Rushdie helped matters in any way. Rather than pour gas on the fire, attack the source of the problem, which is, IMO, our acting like Arab lands are ours to decide the fate of while we and Europe take in Islamic immigrants. A bad combination.

[cmac2012]

Originally Posted by Jim B.

I think the radical fringe element has hijacked that religion worldwide, and its moderate element has done nothing to respond to it.

I've read many times that moderate Muslims have been driven into hiding by the war in Iraq. The climate has become very difficult for them.

[Jim B.]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Relax me bruder. When I read about Scandinavian women getting gang raped because they don't wear head scarves, I start thinking about baseball bat on Islamo head.

It may very well come down to major purges of foreigners from those countries. One reason I was against the war in Iraq is because I figured that one of the most long lasting effects of it would be our taking in untold thousands of Iraqi refugees after the war went bad: "can't let those who fought with us just be slaughtered" and all that.

Oh boy, how many of those immigrants are going to start behaving one day like those in Sweden?

I don't like this crap. My point is that I don't think Rushdie helped matters in any way. Rather than pour gas on the fire, attack the source of the problem, which is, IMO, our acting like Arab lands are ours to decide the fate of while we and Europe take in Islamic immigrants. A bad combination.

Western beneficence in admitting Islamic refugees has led to this unfortunate
situation. A trickle became a stream, then a river, then a torrent, then a deluge. Add to this a population with a HUGE birthrate, and couple it with a reluctance or unwillingness to assimilate, and it is a recipe for disaster.

The remark about Muslim rapists in Sweden, Denmark and Norway is based on fact:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

I was completely unhorsed when all of a sudden in Schiphol Airport, in Holland, there were women in black Burqas, everywhere around.....
some London neighborhoods actually made you think you were in Islamabad, or Karachi, I frankly found it to be spooky.....

As to the knighting of Sir Salmon Rushdie, well, perhaps the timing was a bit "Naff", if you say so, but come on, give me a break, man.

The people in the UK still have, and indeed, should have the right to bestow a knighthood on whomever they wish, and WHENEVER they wish.

Radical Islamists might choose to express their displeasure by trying to blow up Mercedes and Jeep Cherokees, but they have no right to do that.

Cheeky monkeys, thinking that they do...

[Botnst]

Assuming for a moment that Le Carre's characterization of westerners is accurate, is there any indication that the Islamists would be less murderous if the western writers were less condescendingly arrogant?

(I love the way Hitchens writes! Even when I think he is dead-wrong the guy doesn't waste a moment with cushioning)

[Chris Bell]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I've read many times that moderate Muslims have been driven into hiding by the war in Iraq. The climate has become very difficult for them.

Where were the so called moderate Muslims when the first bombings of the world Trade Center took place? or when the USS Cole was bombed? or when 9/11 occured? and on and on. All of which occured before Iraq. Frankly, anytime I hear someone mention the "Moderate Muslims" I think to myself..what both of them.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by Chris Bell

Where were the so called moderate Muslims when the first bombings of the world Trade Center took place? or when the USS Cole was bombed? or when 9/11 occured? and on and on. All of which occured before Iraq. Frankly, anytime I hear someone mention the "Moderate Muslims" I think to myself..what both of them.

They were both either murdered or intimidated into silence decades ago.

[Medmech]

If you have to tip toe in fear of being killed for offending a so called peace loving religion somethings wrong. People blast the Catholics and Pope every second of the day but I don't see Catholics murdering or calling for the beheading of anyone that offends them. This is similar to kids dealing with bullies staying off the playground is a temporary defense you have to kick the bullies ass or scare the bully so bad he will stop being a bully. Pandering to muslims out of fear only strengthens their tactics.

I like CMAC's idea...baseball bats, call me a bigot but I hate the f-ers the largest population in the US is 40 miles from me and they mind their P's and Q's because nobody takes their shat.

[BENZ-LGB]

Originally Posted by Howitzer

I like CMAC's idea...baseball bats, call me a bigot but I hate the f-ers the largest population in the US is 40 miles from me and they mind their P's and Q's because nobody takes their shat.

Count me among the bigots then.

[BENZ-LGB]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

... One reason I was against the war in Iraq is because I figured that one of the most long lasting effects of it would be our taking in untold thousands of Iraqi refugees after the war went bad: "can't let those who fought with us just be slaughtered" and all that.

So far the bush Adm. has admitted only 700 Iraqui families into the U.S.

Wouldn't it be great if these people were like the hardworking Vietnamese immigrants?

Or the Cuban political refugees?

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Rather than pour gas on the fire, attack the source of the problem, which is, IMO, our acting like Arab lands are ours to decide the fate of while we and Europe take in Islamic immigrants. A bad combination.

Wrong! There is no justification, whatsoever, for murdering innocent civilians. Fight like a man, face to face, or start wearing panties and skirts!

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Count me among the bigots then.

Bigot

What is next? What is going to happen if the muslims promise bombings if we democratically elect people? I don't think its too far away a successful bombing in the US a fews days before election day followed by a threat will surely sway an election. People don't realize that their sole intention is to kill non-muslims.

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

So far the bush Adm. has admitted only 700 Iraqui families into the U.S.

In my own experience these people take on the American way fast and pretty much ditch the muslim lifestyle as soon as they get here. I know a couple and they say things about anyone that supports the radicals that I could not come close to repeating here without an eternal ban. They are quickly getting jobs buying houses and shopping at Walmart like true Americans and want nothing to do with the local muslim scene.