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  #1  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:04 AM
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Winter tires and ABS

If winter tires grip better in winter than all weather tires, that means the ABS will kick in first with winter tires right?

Therefore... extending stopping distance?

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Old 10-16-2007, 11:25 AM
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I'm gonna get flambayed for this but how does the ABS breaking system work and what is the difference between "all weather" and winter tires?
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:30 AM
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ABS works by sending a pulse to the brakes so the brakes don't lock up and skid.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:40 AM
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If the winter tires grip better, the ABS will pulse the brakes later.

ABS only extends stopping distance on loose snow, where the act of piling the snow in front of the tires slows you. On ice, you're not stopping with or without ABS.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:13 PM
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I believe traction control is affected by tire tread and composition. ABS doesn't care, it just prevents brakes from locking up when it is sensed.

And all-weather tires have a tread pattern that allows decent fair and inclement weather performance. Tradeoff is that in order to offer smooth riding comfort in good weather, the tread is not as aggresive as would be for dedicated winter tires.

A winter tire's aggresive tread pattern is best suited for snow and slush filled pavements, but are generally pretty noisy when driving in fair weather.
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:22 PM
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Are there any tires you would recommend to go with the ABS? And do winter tires chew up the roads?
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress View Post
Are there any tires you would recommend to go with the ABS? And do winter tires chew up the roads?
if you put chains on 365 then you will chew the road up
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuan View Post
If winter tires grip better in winter than all weather tires, that means the ABS will kick in first with winter tires right?

Therefore... extending stopping distance?
I'm assuming that you are talking about use on a low-traction surface that would favor the winter tires. If so, then the winter tires would offer superior friction against the road surface and the ABS would kick in later, as the threshold for traction loss under those circumstances would be higher than with non-winter tires. With or without ABS, stopping distances should be shorter.

If the scenario that you had in mind involved a dry surface, then your theory is correct. As the winter tires would offer less traction on a dry surface than non-winter tires, ABS would theoretically kick in earlier, and with or without ABS, stopping distances under emergency braking would be longer.

Also bear in mind that winter tires usually also compromise lateral traction on dry surfaces; easy to forget when you're trying to blast into a highway exit ramp. I've done the "Blizzak Bumble" more than once.

Last edited by PaulC; 10-16-2007 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:03 PM
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Tread is not the only difference. Winter tires use softer rubber, which lets them conform to the road better in cold temperatures.

This will mean that they tear up the roads less, unless you install studs, in which case they're fairly harsh. The roads tear up the tires pretty badly in the summer.
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuan View Post
If winter tires grip better in winter than all weather tires, that means the ABS will kick in first with winter tires right?

Therefore... extending stopping distance?
Extend stopping distance compared to what, non-ABS? Or ABS with all-seasons?

In snow/ice, I believe ABS will trigger earlier with all-seasons as the tire will lock up quickly due to a lack of traction - i.e. the wheel will decelerate faster than the car. A snow tire will provide better traction and hence will slow the car more than an all-season will before it locks up.

ABS works by sensing a rapid deceleration of the wheel prior to lockup.

Mistress - not sure about the US, but Canada introduced a 'mountain/snowflake' symbol to tires that met certain criteria for extreme winter performance. To earn the symbol, the tire must pass certain ratings including the composition of the rubber (must remain flexible at low temps) and also winter performance - stopping, accelerating, handling, etc. I think the symbol is used in the US and is also going to be used in Europe? Not sure...
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:16 PM
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The symbol is used in the US, as well as the inscription "M + S" on the sidewall.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:14 PM
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You know what? I was confused. I was under the impression that the better the grip the sooner they'd lockup, but now I see my error. A bald tire would lock up almost immediately.
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:48 PM
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Thanks guys.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:58 PM
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Not only will the ABS lock up later with more grip but the ABS pulses will be less and spaced further apart due to the extra grip.

Also with winter tires, thinner is better, so you want the thinest wheel for your car and then match winter tires to it.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by yal View Post
Not only will the ABS lock up later with more grip but the ABS pulses will be less and spaced further apart due to the extra grip.

Also with winter tires, thinner is better, so you want the thinest wheel for your car and then match winter tires to it.
I think narrower would be a better term as some people might think you mean to put silly DUB rims on their cars. LOL.

And yes. Winter tires in snow will always be safer. I love when people tell me that RWD is "no good" in winter than I find out they are using all seasons. LOL.

Personally I dislike abs as a rule but then the few times I have activated have been glad for it. Though there have been situations where I could have stopped faster without it.

But then I have been known to drive 600 km a day in snowstorms. LOL.

In general. abs works. It's one of the few so-called "safety features" these days that does. (unlike garbage like stability control which is just a fall back for bad drivers.)

Winter tires as said above don't "chew up" roads, though driving them on dry pavement (say leaving them on all summer....) especially as it warms up, will chew the TIRES up.

Some people don't want to spend the money on snows but how much is your life worth? Remember too that in the long run, after the initial purchase, they won't cost that much "more" as you have each set on for 6 months therefore theoretically lasting twice as long.

A few years ago, North of here, a woman was brainlessly yapping on her phone on BLACK ICE and all seasons and through her carelessness spun into a creek drowning herself and her 4 year old. Strangely enough the family blamed THE ROAD!! It's possible that if they'd had proper winter tires and she was actually paying attention to her driving, she'd still be alive.

abs uses the traction that's there. If it can't "feel" it, it goes 'looking" for it. LOL.

Ironically the first time I drove a vehicle with abs I rear ended someone. My fault as I was pissed that he was stopping and slowing down over and over again. He suddenly jammed on the brakes and since my own vehicle didn't have abs I was leaving the distance I THOUGHT I needed to stop. Oops! It was on ice and of course when I hit the brakes, "click, click, click, bang!!".

Though this was at less than 5 mph, I'd forgotten I was driving an abs equipped vehicle.

Turned out the other guy was looking for his sunglasses. Since then of course, I've supposedly grown up and try not to intimidate stupid people for being stupid anymore. LOL. No matter how impatient I get. Mostly, this works.

And Yal is right. A wider tire will "ride over" the snow or slush or...

A narrower (thinner) Tire will dig through and get grip.

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