Originally Posted by Jim B.

I am in Los Angeles and traveling, and met and had dinner with Diametrical Benz, last night, the OP of this thread, and he had asked me to take a look at it.

We discussed the situation in China at some length.

I was left with the impression that there might have been some ignorant and vitriolic responses. I was certainly not prepared for this - though I guess I stood warned.

Truly, this takes the cake. The depth and breadth of your ignorance, on this subject, your and your willingness to demonstrate here leaves me almost at a loss for words.

Charitably, your remarks would be described as naive and uniformed. More brutally,and frankly, they could be characterized as racist, inflammatory, insulting, and stupid.

The "tank and kid" incident you reference took place in 1989. That was almost 20 years ago. Things have NOT remained static in China for the past 18 years.

There are serious human rights violations, many of which are unadressed and ongoing, in China.

I have learned that the leaders in China are not fools, and a lot of "younger blood"
is being brought on board in the high levels of government, with the idea that they might more properly be qualified to meet the challenges and changes of a changing world situation and economy.

That said, it appears that China and the United States have destinies that are intertwined and in a way twinned, in many ways, especially economically.

It is to the advantage of neither side to stereotype identies, and attempt to be insular.

The wireless and internet ages instantly connects us in new ways

English remains and probably will be the principal language of business and the internet. The educated Chinese classes travel abroad, and many have western educations, and are fluent in English, which is necessary for business success. To the extent that cultural stereotypes are true, it would not be unfair that success in business is admired by the Chinese, and accepted as a worthy goal in life.

Resentment of those economic successes sometimes fuels racism and resentment against them, especially against those Chinese who live abroad in foreign countries, like Australia, Vietnam, the USA, Peru, and elsewhere. I have seen a lot of evidence of it in my travels. You should ask any ethinic Chinese living ithe Cholon section of Saigon, about what it is like there, for starters.

The huge demand in America for cheap Chinese made consumer goods fuels the econonic boom in China, and made many millionaires there, and raised the standard of living for many more Chinese, who are now able to afford, and demand such consumer goods as automobiles, electronics, and other luxuries.

The obvious downside of that, of which many Chinese are aware, that chasing Western luxury goods, doesn't necessarily lead to a better life, any more than does Americans chasing cheap Chinese made consumer goods
'
Glib, racist, sarcastic, uninformed, and florid, ignorant sweeping remarks enlighten nobody, and only tend to portray those who make them in a negative light.

Originally Posted by aklim

So they live longer. But at what cost? Now, if I could live to 80 but I had to take out all the stuff I liked, I wouldn't go for it. I'd die at 60 doing and having everything I liked before I lived to 80 but had to cut out a lot of the stuff I enjoy doing and having. Sure, a lot of the stuff I eat and do are unhealthy for me and I know it will cut my life shorter. I'd rather I die happy at 60 having done everything I wanted than to live another 20 years more having to watch everything I do.

Problem with the age thing is that it is only good if you want to live to be alive. You are not talking of giving me 20 more years by rolling back my body aging at 40 to 20. IOW, you are not talking of me being 60 and having the same abilities as when I was young. You are talking of giving me 20 more years of a nursing home stay.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Having worked in an old age home in NJ as a volunteer, I fully concur with your opinion about extending age. We should not yearn for longevity, rather we should make our life productive and when there is nothing else left to do we should make way for the younger generation.

I saw lots of sad old person in moderately good health at the old age home. They were lonely yearning for company. Their families would only pay them once a year token visit, some of them were not even that lucky. It was quite a depressive place for sure.

Originally Posted by aklim

I got to see it from the wife's work. She worked at a nursing home as an RN and now an NP. A lot of sad cases where the family wants to keep them alive AT ALL COSTS. Well, you are a drooling idiot but so what? Vegetable? No problem. Tube feeding and all that crap. Gotta keep you alive so that I can assuage my guilt at not caring for you earlier on.

I get to hear all the grumbling from her about how the people come out of the woodwork when the person is dying and how they start to insist on all sorts of things. Before that time, not a peep or a visit.

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

You're an expert on Chinese socioeconomic structure?

I'm not, but I have been to the fields, the back streets, the factories...and it has reflections of the pre October 14th 1929 America.

Originally Posted by Howitzer

How can you comment on 1929 if you have not been there?

Originally Posted by Botnst

Tardis.

Originally Posted by Kuan

You know that the Chinese government must approve compositions by Chinese composers if they are to be played in public? That goes for all art.

You know it's illegal for you to sleep in certain hotels?

You know it's illegal for you to take pictures at certain "public" places?

You know some of your friends you make in China are actually spies?

You know in Shanghai you come home and literally wipe black soot off your face?

Originally Posted by Botnst

.... Criminals were always caught and always confessed.

B

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

But would you want to live there?

I'd like to visit Shanghai some day, but I would never consider long-term residence.