Peak Oil Update - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

engatwork · #16 11-06-2007, 07:08 PM

I attended a ground breaking today for Range Fuels in Soperton, Ga. The Gov of Ga was there along with US Secretary of Energy Bodman. It was a really big event for the community and the plant is designed to manufacture ethanol using parts from pine trees (which Georgia has alot of). One of the key guys financing it was in attendance and was one of the founders of Sun MicroSystems$$. My father is selling them 137 acres of land for some of the plant site so we got to sit on the third row from the podium

. They made the statement that they will be able to make the ethanol for around $45/barrel.

Here is the link to the energy site:

US Energy Dept

R Leo · #17 11-06-2007, 07:41 PM

OK, I'll buy that refining isn't the driver it once was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csp97

PS. I’ll stop arguing now. You’re mind is probably made up. It’s just that I work in the oil industry and spend several hours a day researching this stuff and I end up with a lot of opinions.

I was in the heavy iron part of 'patch' for a few years and I know that you don't build a fleet of zillion dollar drillships (Transocean's Discoverer class was on our list of projects) and cutting edge semisubs (Sedco's express rigs too) without a pretty damned good idea that there's oil to be had.

Bot should speak up and talk about the hi-rez 3D seismic that's been made to +35k feet all over the GOM. Maybe it isn't easy to get as say, Spindletop or Tyler but it's there.

Despite what the gloom and doom speak oildrum says, we're a long way from burning tallow to stay warm.

Emmerich · #18 11-06-2007, 08:06 PM

Ethanol sucks in every way shape and form. It costs more, contains less energy, is damaging to engines and if it really took off, would create food shortages.

So basically it solves none of the problems it purports to and adds a few more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

I attended a ground breaking today for Range Fuels in Soperton, Ga. The Gov of Ga was there along with US Secretary of Energy Bodman. It was a really big event for the community and the plant is designed to manufacture ethanol using parts from pine trees (which Georgia has alot of). One of the key guys financing it was in attendance and was one of the founders of Sun MicroSystems$$. My father is selling them 137 acres of land for some of the plant site so we got to sit on the third row from the podium

. They made the statement that they will be able to make the ethanol for around $45/barrel.

Here is the link to the energy site:

US Energy Dept

aklim · #19 11-06-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csp97

Excess refining capacity by definition has increased by 1.8 million bpd from whatever it was in May ’05. Less oil same number of refineries. The DOE reported refineries operated at 86.2% of their operable capacity last week, lowest number in few years and trend is down. Show me some statistics that show refinery capacity is short. Articles on cnn.com don’t count (see media comment above).

Also explain the logic of the refinery capacity argument. The consumers (refineries) of oil have limited capacity = a lower relative demand for oil. Logically oil prices should be depressed with refined product prices being high. Refineries should be making money like there’s no tomorrow. (Hint – go look at Valero’s earnings report from today, not happening. Valero complaining of low margins, while oil price is $96.90 today.)

PS. I’ll stop arguing now. You’re mind is probably made up. It’s just that I work in the oil industry and spend several hours a day researching this stuff and I end up with a lot of opinions.

I must admit to surprise at that. I thought I read that a year ago, they were operating at 110% of capacity. Not saying you are mistaken but thought that was the report.

engatwork · #20 11-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Emmerich
The process that this particular plant utilizes does not use food stock to produce the ethanol. It uses waste from clear cutting pine trees. I guess the question will be had we rather ride or use paper to clean our rear after doing out business. Instead of using feedstock they will be in competition with paper mills for the raw material. Keep in mind that this is a brand new technology/process.

Botnst · #21 11-06-2007, 09:28 PM

A fellow I know is interested in making energy use of the left-over glycerin from biodiesel production. He's looking at microbial fermentation to short-chain hydrocarbons. This was news to me and he's not a complete fruitcake (other than him being a biochemist, that is).

Any of you guys heard of this?

Bot

csp97 · #22 11-06-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I must admit to surprise at that. I thought I read that a year ago, they were operating at 110% of capacity. Not saying you are mistaken but thought that was the report.

I have no doubt that you read that. I have given up on the media to supply any useful or accurate information.

Here are the stats from the DOE. History back through 1985. (refered to as operable utilization rate) Take a look at the total capacity numbers while you're there. See what you think about the media's oft reported idea that no new refining capacity is being built.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_unc_dcu_nus_m.htm

Emmerich · #23 11-06-2007, 10:45 PM

Its it actually ethanol? Or a different form of oxygenator?

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Emmerich
The process that this particular plant utilizes does not use food stock to produce the ethanol. It uses waste from clear cutting pine trees. I guess the question will be had we rather ride or use paper to clean our rear after doing out business. Instead of using feedstock they will be in competition with paper mills for the raw material. Keep in mind that this is a brand new technology/process.

Emmerich · #24 11-06-2007, 10:50 PM

The last US refinery was built in 76 or 77, can't remember which. I am sure existing refineries have added capacity, which is a small percentage and also modernized over the years to increase efficiency. But no significant capacity has been added since the 70's.

People want more gasoline but won't let new, cleaner, more efficient refineries be built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csp97

I have no doubt that you read that. I have given up on the media to supply any useful or accurate information.

Here are the stats from the DOE. History back through 1985. (refered to as operable utilization rate) Take a look at the total capacity numbers while you're there. See what you think about the media's oft reported idea that no new refining capacity is being built.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_unc_dcu_nus_m.htm

cmac2012 · #25 11-06-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

Today's high came on the bombings in Afghanistan. Tell me: How much oil comes from Afghanistan ?

Not so sure Mistress is that far off the mark. The Caspian is one of the great unexploited/unknown oil fields left if I believe what I read and I've seen maps of the proposed pipeline route and, whattayaknow, our two major bases in Afghanistan are built right on it.

I will happily concede that my info on this is not unimpeachable, I offer it as food for thought.

cmac2012 · #26 11-06-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

A fellow I know is interested in making energy use of the left-over glycerin from biodiesel production. He's looking at microbial fermentation to short-chain hydrocarbons. This was news to me and he's not a complete fruitcake (other than him being a biochemist, that is).

Any of you guys heard of this?

I've read of people burning the glycerin for heat and/or using it to heat the next batch of brew. I still want to try to make the stuff just on general principle. The hourly return on labor will be low, really low but it could open some opportunities.

Getting rid of the glycerin is one of my concerns.

cmac2012 · #27 11-06-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

Emmerich
The process that this particular plant utilizes does not use food stock to produce the ethanol. It uses waste from clear cutting pine trees. I guess the question will be had we rather ride or use paper to clean our rear after doing out business. Instead of using feedstock they will be in competition with paper mills for the raw material. Keep in mind that this is a brand new technology/process.

A group of Cal. rice farmers are trying to get a scene up and running that would make ethanol out of rice straw, of which they have plenty.

engatwork · #28 11-07-2007, 06:17 AM

Here is a link to their web site

75Sv1 · #29 11-07-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

A fellow I know is interested in making energy use of the left-over glycerin from biodiesel production. He's looking at microbial fermentation to short-chain hydrocarbons. This was news to me and he's not a complete fruitcake (other than him being a biochemist, that is).

Any of you guys heard of this?

Bot

I have heard of this on another webboard for Biodiesel(BioDieselNow). From what I remember, ethanol can be produced from gylcern. Its making it comercially fesable that's the trick.
Tom

csp97 · #30 11-07-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

The last US refinery was built in 76 or 77, can't remember which. I am sure existing refineries have added capacity, which is a small percentage and also modernized over the years to increase efficiency. But no significant capacity has been added since the 70's.

People want more gasoline but won't let new, cleaner, more efficient refineries be built.

Again, listening to too much cnn. I guess you didn't look at the link so here are the actual figures.

US Refining capacity
1997 - 15,594,000 bpd
2007 - 17,358,000 bpd
Increase of 1,764,000 bpd. A big refinery is around 200,000 bpd. Therefore there has been the equivalent of 9 big, new refineries built in the US in the last 10 years.

Now look the total petroleum products supplied in the US (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mttupus1A.htm)
1997 – 18,546,000 bpd
2007 – 20,716,000 bpd
Increase of 2,170,000 bpd.

Refinery capacity has increased by 11.3%
Petroleum consumption has increased by 11.7%

Do you and the media still stand by your statement that nothing significant has been done since 1976?