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  #1  
Old 11-06-2007, 07:54 PM
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ceramic tile install

I'm at wits end with a small repair to a bathroom ceramic tile floor.

I had to secure about 50 2" x 2" tiles that had become poorly attached. Original bond was thinset, but I believe the movement of the floor over 15 years created the issue.

So, I decided to use the ceramic tile adhesive to replace them.

After one week, some of it has dried and some of it has not. The material that has dried is not thoroughly dry and the tiles can be moved slightly.

The material that never dried (six tiles) allowed me to lift the tiles right off the floor. I applied new adhesive today and will see if it will be successful.

What I don't understand is why this material fails to properly dry? I've used it before with similar (poor) results.

Anyone else have this issue?

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  #2  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Wodnek's Avatar
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I have never had this issue. Are you using the proper notched trowel?
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:48 PM
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I had a similar situation. Whole bathroom floor failed. Closer inspection of the pre-mixed setting material recommended at Home Depot revealed fine print which stated not to use in moist environment.
Had to completely redo the floor. I don't know the proper name of the setting material I used the second time but it came as a powder and I had to mix it myself. No more pre-mixed materials for me.
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:09 PM
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thinset

moist environment = thinset
dry environment = glue or mastic
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:14 PM
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Thinset!!!..........
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
I'm at wits end with a small repair to a bathroom ceramic tile floor.

I had to secure about 50 2" x 2" tiles that had become poorly attached. Original bond was thinset, but I believe the movement of the floor over 15 years created the issue.

So, I decided to use the ceramic tile adhesive to replace them.

After one week, some of it has dried and some of it has not. The material that has dried is not thoroughly dry and the tiles can be moved slightly.

The material that never dried (six tiles) allowed me to lift the tiles right off the floor. I applied new adhesive today and will see if it will be successful.

What I don't understand is why this material fails to properly dry? I've used it before with similar (poor) results.

Anyone else have this issue?
86 the adhesive (mastic.) Most of it is crap.

Use multi-purpose dry set thinset, mixed with water, slaked properly, to set the tiles..

Consult the TCA (Tile Council of America) Handbook, on-line, for further information on industry recognized installation materials.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2007, 10:22 PM
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Use thinset. What was the substrate - durock?
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:28 PM
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I think that stuff is recommended primarily for wall tile. I've used it on kitchen walls to good effect. I did have a serious drying problem once. I was putting up 12" x 12" lattices of little 1/2" square tiles on a kitchen wall. I thought all the spacing would allow it to dry out but after it went a few days w/o drying I took a closer look at the back of one of the squares. The bits of paper-like binder were translucent so I didn't realize that there was a lot more of it than I had thought and there really wasn't much room for evaporation.

I drilled a 3/16ths hole at every corner, gently so as not to go clear through the sheet rock and it finally dried.

I saw some guys on a job once using a two part epoxy like tile cement. Never bought it. You might try the John Bridge tile forum. Some excellent advice to be had there.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
Use thinset. What was the substrate - durock?
The substrate is plywood.

I specifically wanted the mastic, instead of the thinset, because it's far more forgiving on a wood floor that's not stiff enough. The thinset provides no capability of movement............the mastic effectively provides unlimited capability. The floor is a single sheet of 3/4" plywood with a sheet of 1/4" luan on top..........not very stiff.

If the damn stuff would only dry.............
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:10 AM
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Hardibacker..........
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
I specifically wanted the mastic, instead of the thinset, because it's far more forgiving on a wood floor that's not stiff enough. The thinset provides no capability of movement............the mastic effectively provides unlimited capability. The floor is a single sheet of 3/4" plywood with a sheet of 1/4" luan on top..........not very stiff.
Some dry set thinset now comes with flex-type capabilities. --The higher grades.

Your substrate's deflection is not supposed to exceed 1/360th degree of span. In addition, tiling to plywood, wonderboard, durock, hardibacker board, whatever, without a vapor-moisture membrane..........that's a no no too. --None of those products are waterproof.. Any plywood should be double thicknesses -- 3/4" marine-grade. Mastic is usually a disaster, and a waste of money..
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Some dry set thinset now comes with flex-type capabilities. --The higher grades.

Your substrate's deflection is not supposed to exceed 1/360th degree of span. In addition, tiling to plywood, wonderboard, durock, hardibacker board, whatever, without a vapor-moisture membrane..........that's a no no too. --None of those products are waterproof.. Any plywood should be double thicknesses -- 3/4" marine-grade. Mastic is usually a disaster, and a waste of money..

HUH?.......

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner/backerboard.shtml
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1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

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Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

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  #13  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Some dry set thinset now comes with flex-type capabilities. --The higher grades.

Your substrate's deflection is not supposed to exceed 1/360th degree of span. In addition, tiling to plywood, wonderboard, durock, hardibacker board, whatever, without a vapor-moisture membrane..........that's a no no too. --None of those products are waterproof.. Any plywood should be double thicknesses -- 3/4" marine-grade. Mastic is usually a disaster, and a waste of money..
ANSI A108.5 is what you need to read up on.

As far as "HUH?" goes, Hardie isn't waterproof. --And it never was. "Read" what you linked to.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
ANSI A108.5 is what you need to read up on.

As far as "HUH?" goes, Hardie isn't waterproof. --And it never was. "Read" what you linked to.

Hello...He's referring to bathroom floor....Not a shower enclosure..no water barrier/membrane needed...How long have been a flooring contractor?
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1984 300SD.. White/Chrome Bunts..Green

1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins 5.9 H.O "596hp/1225tq" 6 spd. Man. Leather Heated seats/Loaded..Flame Red....GREENSPEED

Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

Fight the good fight!......
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2007, 06:20 AM
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YOur situation with ply plus luan is hopeless in terms of ever getting anything to last long term. Moisture susceptable and too flexible. So it is against all rules.

But if I wanted to limp along and just do a temporary repair that might last a few years I would glue the tile down with epoxy and use silicone to caulk the joints. When the silicone dries it looks very much like natural grout.

Tom W

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