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  #1  
Old 04-25-2006, 10:17 PM
MS Fowler's Avatar
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Quality--Mercedes versus Honda

I will admit up front that this is my opinion, and based on a very limited sampling of the unbiverse of cars.
The quality of a Honda is of a different nature than the quality of the Mercedes.

Yesterday, I did some maintenance on my mother-in-law's 2004 Honda Civic. From the driver's seat, there is a feeling of "quality:. The ride is well dampened, and hushed. The engine is jewel-like in its operation. All the controls function well. All in all a noticeable cut above the quality of my wife's 2004 Hyuandai Elantra, which is still a good car. Never the less, there is an impression of quality with the Honda.
However, as I began to do the mainteneance, I began to have other feelings.
To drain the auto trans requires a 9mm short hex. No set of hex wrenches in my possession has a 9mm--they skip from 8mm to 10mm. Second, there is a cross member in the way that prevents easy access. I ended up pulling a hose from the cooler, and draining it by having the engine pump out the ATF.
To drain the radiator there is a plastic winged screw. The manual says to put a hose on the nipple to keep the coolant from splashing, except there is no nipple--just a hole in the barrel of the drain fitting. Also, the drain screw is not captive--if you keep uncrewing it, it falls oput, into the pan with the coolant.
I had the impression that the car was engineered to be built on the assembly line with little thought given to the service techs.

By contrast, nearly every time I work on the Mercedes I am struck by the thought that " Someone really thought about what I am doing here, and has made an effort to help me" Every notice how all mercedes pan gaskets snap onto the pan?--no loose gasket slidding around while trying to install the bolts. How about the way stuff just "fits: the way it is supposed to.The examples of this attention to detail are endless.

While the quality of the Honda is apparent from the driver's seat, but evaporates elsewhere, the quality of the Mercedes does not disappoint no matter what the perspective.

What do the rest of you think?

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  #2  
Old 04-25-2006, 10:23 PM
MedMech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler

While the quality of the Honda is apparent from the driver's seat, but evaporates elsewhere, the quality of the Mercedes does not disappoint no matter what the perspective.

What do the rest of you think?
Generally yes but installing my first set of tailgate shocks on the TE was an experience to learn from, but once I made a custom set pin holder tool I could change them in minutes.
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2006, 11:58 PM
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Yep I've turned enough wrench's on MB's to know I'd rather work on an S600 then my old Camry or my moms pos Olds.

At least with the MB things come apart, and in general they did think about the guy trying to fix it. Like for example using pretty standard fasteners. Lots of 10mm.

Want to talk junk? How about the GM 3.1L V6 that blows $80 injectors every couple of months. How about having to remove the intake manifold, drain coolant and in general spend half a day fighting with cheap crap to change said pos injector. Every part fights you on the way off and the way on.

After that working on a MB is like taking a vacation!
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2006, 12:37 AM
iwrock's Avatar
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Hells yea. I would rather maintain somethingl ike the engine in my SL600. I had a Honda Acord that was a pain in the ass to maintain. That damn thing burned more oil than my wagon with 220,000 miles. Not only that, but myold honda didnt have the same fit and feel of the mercedes. It jsut felt like iot wasnt solid. Close the door, and it would make a clack instead of the clunk that you would find when closing the door in a Mercedes.

I just missed the feel of the Mercedes when I drove that honda. It had really light steerin, and just wasnt user firendly to me.

By the way, I am on #7 right now.
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2006, 03:40 PM
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I've got a Honda thats tuned to within an inch of its life...and is still uber-reliable and streetible.
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Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 04-28-2006 at 12:27 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2006, 03:54 PM
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I recently installed Euro headlights in my 300TE. Every piece fit as it should, and every part was designed with maximum utility in mind. I like how parts only fit a certain way, and how the fit is obvious. No chance for screwing up here.

The components have a nice heft and a feel of purpose. For instance, the ring that holds the bulbs in place (in the US spec lights) is solid, well made and looks like it would survive a million miles if it had to.

At the same time I replaced a bunch of bulbs in my wife's 2002 Yukon. If one or two fail (and the DLR bulbs seem to fail all the time) I just replace them in pairs.

By comparison, the headlight assemblies for the Yukon are cheap and flimsy. they just do not feel very substantial. The assembly holding the headlight bulbs in place is flimsy and can, and will, break if pushed just a little bit in the wrong direction.

One area where the 300TE is lacking, however, seems to be in the wiring department. As part of my 300TE project, I removed the US spec headlight washers. I was installing a new washer fluid tank, so I decided to remove the second pump (theone for the headlight washers) and also decided to route the now superfluous wiring out of the way.

The wire casing (not the actual wire cover, just the casings) was hard, dry and brittle. When I tried to bend them out of the way, the casing just broke off.

Where possible, I have fixed the old casings. If not possible to replace them, Iam replacing the casing with ribbed, flexible casing.

I have worked on real old American cars, and the wiring seems to survive in much better shape than Benz wiring.

It would seem that whereas mechanically Benzes are far superior thanmost cars, electrically they have a few glitches and their quality is not as good. I rather suspect that this would be the one area where the Japanese imports really shine.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2006, 10:17 PM
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MB's don't have electrical problems, they use Bosch. Now Jags, Jags have electrical problems!

Some of the electrical problems Jag's have just defy logic, having smoke pour from the dash is just part of Jag ownership.
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2006, 10:37 PM
Banned
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler
By contrast, nearly every time I work on the Mercedes I am struck by the thought that " Someone really thought about what I am doing here, and has made an effort to help me" Every notice how all mercedes pan gaskets snap onto the pan?--no loose gasket slidding around while trying to install the bolts. How about the way stuff just "fits: the way it is supposed to.The examples of this attention to detail are endless.

While the quality of the Honda is apparent from the driver's seat, but evaporates elsewhere, the quality of the Mercedes does not disappoint no matter what the perspective.

What do the rest of you think?
I have a basic question.

Are you comparing the capability of wrenching on that Honda with your SD?

Or are you comparing it with a 2006 M/B?

Or something else?


Because, if you are comparing the Honda to the SD, you are comparing apples and oranges and have very little basis for your conclusions.

The "quality" of a M/B of the newest generation will "evaporate" just like that Honda. None of then are easy to work on.........and more specialized tools will be necessary.

I had done some limited work on an '89 Civic. All the parts were tiny for my large hands, but, the layout was just as good as the SD. The vehicle currently has 250K on it and the four cylinder still starts after sitting for 3 months straight. An extremely durable and well designed vehicle.........though hardly considered "high quality".......it was the bottom of the Honda lineup.
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2006, 11:34 PM
John Holmes III
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Quality is one issue, Honda dealers have customer service that most MB owners would envy. The arrogance of most MB dealerships is amazing. The service writers remind me of used car salesmen.
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2006, 01:24 AM
BENZ-LGB's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes III
Quality is one issue, Honda dealers have customer service that most MB owners would envy. The arrogance of most MB dealerships is amazing. The service writers remind me of used car salesmen.
The service writers at my local MB dealer are very courteous. They bend over backwards to make sure that I am happy. Their sales staff, on the other hand, could do better.
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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

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  #11  
Old 04-27-2006, 01:44 AM
John Holmes III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB
The service writers at my local MB dealer are very courteous. They bend over backwards to make sure that I am happy. Their sales staff, on the other hand, could do better.
I bet your dealer is a MB only dealer. My local dealer also sells GM and Jeeps and used to sell Renaults. How can you cater to a person who just spent 80k on a new benz when you sell used cars for 3k and your service writers have NO MB experience. It's a shame. They even told me once that there was no such thing as a 1959 220SE when it was parked outside the door and I wanted to order a fuel filter for it.

The sales staff are slimeballs. I had one guy escort me back to the waiting room when I told him I wasn't in the market for a new MB and I wouldn't give him my personal info for his personal "file".
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2006, 02:39 AM
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I have a 1985 Honda Accord and it still runs great. But working on it is a pain in the knuckles. The Honda engineers take great pride in stuffing as lots of crap in a small sapce with no regard for the mech that has to work on it.
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2006, 05:26 AM
MS Fowler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
I have a basic question.

Are you comparing the capability of wrenching on that Honda with your SD?

Or are you comparing it with a 2006 M/B?

Or something else?


Because, if you are comparing the Honda to the SD, you are comparing apples and oranges and have very little basis for your conclusions.

The "quality" of a M/B of the newest generation will "evaporate" just like that Honda. None of then are easy to work on.........and more specialized tools will be necessary.

I had done some limited work on an '89 Civic. All the parts were tiny for my large hands, but, the layout was just as good as the SD. The vehicle currently has 250K on it and the four cylinder still starts after sitting for 3 months straight. An extremely durable and well designed vehicle.........though hardly considered "high quality".......it was the bottom of the Honda lineup.
Brian,
As I said, the basis for my opinion was rather limited. And you are undoubtedly correct in that I am comparing different generations of vehicles.
Since MB began designing to a price point, they are no longer the unique vehicles they used to be. Maybe thats why I am a fan of the W123 and W126 chasis'
Back in the day, the overall philosophy of an automobile company was evident in their products, (" Das beste order nichts"). Now with the budget driving all decisions, there is less difference. Engineers are engineers, and the way to reduce costs and manufacture a car efficiently are not secrets held only by a select few.
More's the pity, sigh....
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  #14  
Old 04-27-2006, 08:45 AM
BENZ-LGB's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes III
I bet your dealer is a MB only dealer. My local dealer also sells GM and Jeeps and used to sell Renaults. How can you cater to a person who just spent 80k on a new benz when you sell used cars for 3k and your service writers have NO MB experience. It's a shame. They even told me once that there was no such thing as a 1959 220SE when it was parked outside the door and I wanted to order a fuel filter for it.

The sales staff are slimeballs. I had one guy escort me back to the waiting room when I told him I wasn't in the market for a new MB and I wouldn't give him my personal info for his personal "file".
Sorry about your bad experience.

Our local dealer is part of a conglomerate that owns just about every auto dealership in Westlake Village. Cadillac, Jag, Hummer, Benz, etc.

The dealers are kept separate, however, so the guy who writes up my car does not also write up Caddies.

I used to own a Caddy and the service staff was also pretty decent.

Maybe I am just fortunate.

But like I said, for the most part the sales staff stinks, big time.
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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2006, 08:54 AM
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it is a rare instance when i walk onto a used car lot (or new for that matter) in which i dont feel that i know more about the car than the salesman, and i have never seen it before.

i always have to ask the price, though, and that is the thing that they know and i dont.

tom w

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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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