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  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:40 PM
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Ocean life in peril: best interview I've heard on the topic

Michael Krasny on SF's NPR show "Forum" recently interviewed marine biologist Callum Roberts, professor of marine conservation at the University of York in England.

http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R710181000

This is one of the problems on earth that most concerns me, way beyond fears of terrorism, etc. We brought about the effective end of the Buffalo, a massive, self perpetuating source of first class protein, on this continent. Now it's looking like humanity as a whole is replicating that in the oceans.

Lot of info out on this though it largely continues apace.

I think I've hit on a productive use for our navy. We need to establish nursery, non fishery zones in the world's oceans at once. The good professor recommends about 1/3 of ocean area total. It won't be easy. Such zones would soon be teeming with fish and the pressure to get in there would be intense. However, unless we do, the oceans will be near worthless, except for jelly fish, before long.

Many obscure, previously unexploited species are now being taken in such a manner as to seriously disrupt their breeding cycle, i.e., taken before they reach breeding age. Bottom trawling especially should be absolutely banned immediately, with the ban vigorously enforced.

Now is the time, if not us, who?

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Old 11-08-2007, 08:41 PM
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Excellent subject.

Patagonian Toothfish....also known as Chilean Seabass one of the best tasting fishes out there is dwindling fast. It's still on the market although I am not sure of it's current status. I love it but refrain from buying it or ordering it.

The Monkfish is a common replacement for Chilean Seabass for it's plump texture and high oil content but those too are being fished out of control.

Southern California White Seabass - I participated in research for Atractosion Nobilis for 4.5 years in a hatchery catch and release program developed by OHREP and CA DFG and it turns out that protecting fish spawning areas really has caused the fish populations to bounce back so it works and there's more fish to be caught and turned into awesome steaks and tacos.

The Seafood Watch Guide really is a good guide for those if you seafood people. Stay away from overseas seafood if you can since there is unregulated use of Malachite Green which has been banned in the US for food uses so buy American if you see it

http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:55 PM
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Thanks for the info. The salmon runs are way down in California this year. I read that they depend on an infusion of cold water from up north to regulate their health and cycles. We know the water is getting warmer up north.

And farmed salmon are a horrible response. They fish the oceans with a vengeance to get the commercially unattractive fish that they feed farmed salmon, thus reducing the food for other fish, real salmon among them no doubt.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:24 PM
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There's an interesting aspect to be known.
Jaques Cousteau, who designed the "Aqualung", the first scuba diving air compressor (or such) in 1943, went somewhere along the Mediteranean to test it. They already took film shots back then.
In an event when they came back, 25 years later, they again took film shots.
The comparison is mind bogling. The underwater live was practically dead, when they came back.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I think I've hit on a productive use for our navy. We need to establish nursery, non fishery zones in the world's oceans at once. The good professor recommends about 1/3 of ocean area total. It won't be easy. Such zones would soon be teeming with fish and the pressure to get in there would be intense. However, unless we do, the oceans will be near worthless, except for jelly fish, before long.

if not us, who?
Sure, why not use the Navy for that. There are way too many navy personnel doing nothing but scratching their nuts all day long. Send them on Mission Impossible on our taxes. 1/3 of the ocean is a little small. Why not 1/2 of the ocean. Think of the Little Red Hen except where the Hen does the silly thing and shares her bread with the others.

How about this. We send China and India our hippies that want to beat plowshares out of swords and we solve a lot of problems. They are the new industrial powerhouses. Let them convince the Chinese and Indians to go fund the project and we sit back and rake in the benefits. Hamper their economy and give ours a break. So, to answer the question, the new idiots of the block that will pay the way for the rest of the gang who can sit back and not do anything or maybe go and screw with the containment area.
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Old 11-08-2007, 10:55 PM
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"Tragedy of the commons."
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:00 PM
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Sure, why not use the Navy for that. There are way too many navy personnel doing nothing but scratching their nuts all day long. Send them on Mission Impossible on our taxes. 1/3 of the ocean is a little small. Why not 1/2 of the ocean. Think of the Little Red Hen except where the Hen does the silly thing and shares her bread with the others.

How about this. We send China and India our hippies that want to beat plowshares out of swords and we solve a lot of problems. They are the new industrial powerhouses. Let them convince the Chinese and Indians to go fund the project and we sit back and rake in the benefits. Hamper their economy and give ours a break. So, to answer the question, the new idiots of the block that will pay the way for the rest of the gang who can sit back and not do anything or maybe go and screw with the containment area.
The cost would have to be born all around. The real tragedy of this is the taking of fish that are about to reach breeding age, or the taking of most of the existing breeders. Carefully chosen nursery zones would allow protected areas where fish could repopulate and the offspring would eventually migrate.

Not to do this is to court major peril. Those costs will be enormous.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:01 PM
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"Tragedy of the commons."
Yup. And keeping the ever starving and growing masses from overfishing may take an act of God. Literally.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:04 PM
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Actually, this is going to take an agreement from many countries to enforce. The oceans are in trouble. Overfishing is a reality. Unfortunately I don't think that anyone is going to agree on a corrective action so the problem will only get worse. RT
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:06 PM
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The cost would have to be born all around.
So get your buddy the UN to organize it. Why should we use our Navy to do it? Find who benefits from it and have them pay for it. We use the US Navy and we lose part of our fighting force and a chunk of our taxes.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:07 PM
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Yup. And keeping the ever starving and growing masses from overfishing may take an act of God. Literally.
They are starving? Let them eat cake.

Signed
Yours Agnostically.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:08 PM
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Actually, this is going to take an agreement from many countries to enforce. The oceans are in trouble. Overfishing is a reality. Unfortunately I don't think that anyone is going to agree on a corrective action so the problem will only get worse. RT
Try all countries. How will you get all to cooperate? OK. Lets say we get the usual suckers (The US) to do it. What happens when there is non-compliance by a country that doesn't want to do it? We send the USS Enterprise to intercept and sink the ship?
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Thanks for the info. The salmon runs are way down in California this year. I read that they depend on an infusion of cold water from up north to regulate their health and cycles. We know the water is getting warmer up north.

And farmed salmon are a horrible response. They fish the oceans with a vengeance to get the commercially unattractive fish that they feed farmed salmon, thus reducing the food for other fish, real salmon among them no doubt.
Salmon is arguably the best fish to eat from a nutritional standpoint. It's dissapointing that their spawning cycles are being interrupted so drastically.

No to mention farmed shrimp is a bad deal too. They have gotten to be very cheap and affordable but it's like a cheap Mc Donalds beef sort of thing in the Phillippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam with the sewage and antibiotics.

I spend my dollars with wild caught US and Canadian shrimp which I think are just as good tasting even if they cost a few dollars more per pound.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:11 PM
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Al animals require food, shelter (habitat) and water for life. They need a mate to perpetuate the species. Deprive an animal of any of those or any combination and animals will always react. Paramecium or human, the reaction differs in scale and type but are the same degree of necessity.
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Old 11-08-2007, 11:21 PM
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I agree that the oceans are in serious trouble. I think cmac brings up an excellent subject. Although the navy may not be able to do it on its own, something must be done before the oceans become deserts. Deserted oceans cannot be good for the earth or for humans.

The present rate of stripping the oceans of life cannot be sustained.

Tom W

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