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  #1  
Old 11-15-2007, 02:58 PM
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Too Little too late Airline Holiday fix

It doesn't matter what your take on Pres. Bush is, it could be anyone, but this ridiculous publicity stunt will do nothing to alleviate the problem of the airlines over booking and scheduling too many flights to depart out of the airports at the same time.
It is airline mismanagement of their own resources causing the delays.

We've got airlines mothballing planes to save money on crews, maintenance, and fuel, allowing the overbooking of seats with the reality that people are going to travel anyway for the holiday to see relatives and that "people will just have to leave earlier and allow more time".
A few people get bumped, and the airline doesn't fly with any empty seats.

The article suggests flying 90% full for the holidays. I wonder if any of you flying on commercial planes will see any empty seats.

The skies are simply not that crowded that opening up Military Jetways will make any difference at all, even if you did it permanently.

Now, if you said we're opening up military runways for commercial traffic, that would do something.
Of course, that would never happen.





WASHINGTON (AP) -- Ahead of the holiday travel crunch, President Bush ordered steps Thursday to reduce air traffic congestion and long delays that have left passengers stranded.

President Bush outlined a plan to reduce air traffic congestion on Thursday.

The most significant change is that the Pentagon will open unused military airspace from Florida to Maine to create "a Thanksgiving express lane" for commercial airliners. It will be open next week for five days -- Wednesday through Sunday -- for the busiest days of Thanksgiving travel.

Bush said the problems with delayed flights are "clear to anybody who's been traveling. Airports are very crowded. Travelers are being stranded and flights are delayed, sometimes with a full load of passengers sitting on the runway for hours.

"These failures carry some real costs for the country, not just in the inconvenience they cause but in the business they obstruct and the family gatherings they cause people to miss,' the president said. "We can do better."

The new plan also will be in effect for the Christmas travel season, and White House press secretary Dana Perino said the Federal Aviation Administration was imposing a holiday moratorium on nonessential maintenance projects, allowing all FAA personnel and equipment to be focused on keeping flights on time.

Further, the Department of Transportation will propose doubling the bump fee that airlines must pay to travelers who buy tickets but wind up without a seat. The penalty now is $200 or $400, depending on how long the passenger has been inconvenienced. The proposed increase would make the fee $400 to $800. Perino said that rule, if it becomes final, wouldn't be in place until next summer's travel season.

Further, officials said the FAA would take other steps to increase efficiency such as rerouting airspace, using technology to fill unused space in the air and on the ground, and using more precise routes for takeoffs and landings.

Another proposed rule would deem the operation of a chronically delayed flight -- defined as a flight that operates more than 15 minutes late more than 70 percent of the time -- to be an "unfair and deceptive practice." That designation carries with it substantial monetary penalties.

The president said other steps were under consideration to reduce crowded skies, such as charging airlines higher landing and takeoff fees at peak hours, and auctioning off landing and takeoff rights to the highest bidder.

Domestic carriers are expected to fly roughly 27 million passengers worldwide over 12 days beginning November 16, with planes about 90 percent full, according to the Air Transport Association.

Several airline executives, testifying before the House Transportation Committee Thursday on holiday travel prospects, said they were preparing to care for passengers in the event of weather or air traffic control-related delays.

Jetblue Airways CEO Dave Barger acknowledged that "we let our customers down" last February when hundreds of passengers were stranded on parked JetBlue planes for up to 10 1/2 hours. "In fact, to be candid, we failed them."

He said that with added deicing equipment and crew and expanded customer service personnel, "JetBlue is ready for the holidays."

But Rep. John Mica, R-Florida, said there was "some very bad news for people who think there is going to be a quick cure to congestion." He said that even if everything went smoothly, implementation of the next-generation air traffic control system that should reduce disruptions was at least 15 years off.

Bush, on September 27, announced that his administration was looking at ways to reduce air traffic congestion. The president urged Congress to look at legislation to modernize the FAA, and instructed Peters to report back to him quickly about ways to ensure that air passengers are treated appropriately and progress is made to ease congestion.

Peters said at the time she was asking airlines to meet to formulate a plan to improve scheduling at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, one of the nation's busiest. If no solution is found, she said, the department is prepared to issue a scheduling reduction order.

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  #2  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:05 AM
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All airlines have a fixed number of aircraft.

By definition, every one of these aircraft flies every single day, unless it's in for scheduled maintenance. None of the serviceable aircraft are parked. The are all put into service because any revenue is better than no revenue.

On the holidays, there are no additional aircraft to be utilized. The same number of aircraft exist on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving as exist today.

Therefore, the routes that are flown by the various aircraft are not "more crowded" during a holiday, and the suggestion that military airways will help alleviate overcrowding is preposterous.

But, truthfully, what would you expect from GWB........except more stupidity?
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:15 AM
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Are you saying he is a moron?

Tom W
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:36 AM
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mo·ron /ˈmɔrɒn, ˈmoʊr-/ –noun
1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
2. Psychology. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaughingGravy View Post
mo·ron /ˈmɔrɒn, ˈmoʊr-/ –noun
1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
2. Psychology. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.
.........one from column one...........thank you very much.........
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
All airlines have a fixed number of aircraft.

By definition, every one of these aircraft flies every single day, unless it's in for scheduled maintenance. None of the serviceable aircraft are parked. The are all put into service because any revenue is better than no revenue.

On the holidays, there are no additional aircraft to be utilized. The same number of aircraft exist on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving as exist today.

Therefore, the routes that are flown by the various aircraft are not "more crowded" during a holiday, and the suggestion that military airways will help alleviate overcrowding is preposterous.

But, truthfully, what would you expect from GWB........except more stupidity?
I tend to agree with you on this, and was prepared to say that the only variable would be private plane traffic, but then realized that they typically fly at a lower altitude than commercial airliners. As such, I must reluctantly concur that our esteemed President is indeed...a moron.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
.........one from column one...........thank you very much.........
I have found no compelling argument that disqualifies #2.
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulC View Post
I have found no compelling argument that disqualifies #2.
.........#2 is disqualified..........he has an IQ of 70..........he can elicit some understandable words his face grimaces when he delivers them...........so, he's a 70.
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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And instead of complaining that someone's action to alleviate possible stress in a situation isn't good enough for you...

Please, provide your reasonable solution for the problem. I'm not talking politics here, I'm just following mom's rule of "if you don't have anything good to say, " and "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

I don't know much of the situation, so I can only offer to plan ahead, or be prepared to drive.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:20 PM
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What he said.

So what would you like the president to do? Buy more planes? Restrict the number of tickets sold? Come to your house on Thanksgiving and entertain you with olives on the ends of his fingers?

Jeez people, he's a president, not a god.

Besides, you know that if he didn't do this, and next week some retired Air Force general told NBC news that this could have been done and wasn't... You'd ***** about that...

MV
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  #11  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAVBMW View Post
So what would you like the president to do? Buy more planes? Restrict the number of tickets sold? Come to your house on Thanksgiving and entertain you with olives on the ends of his fingers?

Jeez people, he's a president, not a god.

Besides, you know that if he didn't do this, and next week some retired Air Force general told NBC news that this could have been done and wasn't... You'd ***** about that...

MV
How about this:

It's not a political problem. It has no political solution. Bush should do nothing and stay out of the damn way.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:46 PM
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You have no idea how crowed air space is...I was flying last Sunday right out side the ADIZ and within 3 minutes I had lots of company...
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:58 PM
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I agree that it's not a political problem, but that doesn't mean much in today's world.

People want the government and/or the president involved in all sorts of things. Gas prices, healthcare, marriage, airline congestion, the list goes on and on. Some people hate it when the government acts, others when it doesn't. A large group will complain either way. Especially when Bush is involved.

I think we both know that as long as people are clamoring for more government involvement, the government will be willing to get involved. It's getting them out of things that's difficult.

As for this particular problem, how about using some military transport aircraft? We could either pack the people in like the troops do when they travel, or in true American style, we could let them drive their cars right inside, chain them down and let them watch their DVDs in the backseat while they fly. Are there fly-thru Starbucks for them?

MV
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle-co94 View Post
And instead of complaining that someone's action to alleviate possible stress in a situation isn't good enough for you...

Please, provide your reasonable solution for the problem. I'm not talking politics here, I'm just following mom's rule of "if you don't have anything good to say, " and "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

I don't know much of the situation, so I can only offer to plan ahead, or be prepared to drive.
The first thing to do is to define the problem.

The way I see it is the problem is attempting to sequence too many aircraft for landing at all the various airports. When humans attempt to do this, they are not capable of handling any more than a specific number of arrivals to a given runway in a given time period. Nothing is going to change this fact.

So, either you allow computers to do more of the sequencing or you build more runways or you force the airlines to use larger aircraft. The latter is no solution because the public likes the smaller RJ's that can take them to smaller cities at a reasonable frequency. It's exactly counter to the need for larger aircraft to move more people.

At the present time, the three airports in the NYC area will typically experience 30 minute to 1 hour delays........in perfectly clear weather.

This should tell you that the current number of aircraft attempting to land in NY is too great for the infrastructure (controllers and runways).
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:07 PM
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I believe part of this is a political problem. The FAA is using equipment that is archaic. I a sure WVO can shed some more light on the situation but 2 things I have heard repeated often are 1. up date the radar and the systems that the towers use. They are out of date and cannot handle the current volume much lest the forecasted volume. 2. allow the planes to fly more direct routes. My understanding now it that they must fly along certain way points instead of a direct A-B route.

If Congress would light a fire under the FAA and give them the necessary funding, alot of the congestion could be reduced if not eliminated.

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