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Old 11-18-2007, 02:25 AM
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Texan Kills 2 Suspects While On Phone With 911

911 tape traces deadly shootings by Pasadena man:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5306638.html

At a news conference Friday, attorney Tom Lambright said his client Joe Horn, 61, was "just doing what everyone is supposed to do."

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:30 AM
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Transcript of 9-1-1 call:

http://wcbstv.com/national/joe.horn.shoots.2.570499.html

CBS News Interactive: Crime Beat
PASADENA, Texas (CBS) T
he 911 call came from a Pasadena, Texas resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this --."

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

"I don't know if they're armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don't go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

"I don't want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

"No, I don't want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

"I can't see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn't know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.

Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this --. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."

On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

Then Horn is back on the phone:

"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the -- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."

Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

Horn: "No, no, no."

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

Yelling is heard.

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."

Two days later, Horn released a statement through an attorney.

"The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life," it said. "My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased."

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30. Official records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses.

The men were reportedly shot at a distance of less than 15 feet.

A woman who lives nearby who asked not to be identified told CBS News affiliate KHOU correspondent Rucks Russell that she always saw Horn as a grandfather figure. "He is the guardian of the neighborhood," she said. "He takes care of all our kids. If we ever need anything, we call him."

But according to Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney and a friend for more than four decades, he's the one in need now. "He just needs everyone to know he's not a villain, he's not a bad guy," Lambright said.

He went on to say that Horn voluntarily gave an extensive video statement to police immediately following the shooting.

Horn was not taken into custody after the shooting. A Harris County grand jury will decide if charges are to be filed.

Lambright says Horn acted in complete and total self defense and has nothing to hide.

Local opinion has been passionate on both sides of the shooting.

One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

Another letter writer praised Horn, saying, "Where does the line form to pin a medal on Joe Horn? I want to get in line." Another wrote, "Let's get rid of the police force and just hire Joe Horn!"

Support for Horn was also running about 2-1 in an online survey of readers on the KHOU Web site.

The incident may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

(© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:30 AM
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I think it would have been better off if he didn't call 911 at all...or called them AFTERWARDS...

...I wish everyone from now on would have the opportunity to pump burglars full of holes...I'm sick of innocent individuals being victims in this country!
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Old 11-18-2007, 08:25 AM
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Hell, I could just shoot them and bury them in the back, and nobody'd know. It's nice having acreage.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:04 AM
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Fine with me that he popped them - those two yahoos had it coming. Unfortunately for Horn, you can't do that in Texas even though the Grand Jury will understand why he did it. You're allowed to shoot somebody in your house because no "normal" person should be expected to retreat from his own house during a break-in. He would have been better off going outside without the phone then saying the burglars attacked him and he had to use self-defense.
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Last edited by POS; 11-19-2007 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:21 AM
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Grandson of Tom Horn???
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:31 AM
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I believe I have read about statistics which indicate that making more severe penalties for crime, don't deter it. Certainty of punishment is apparently the key to detering crime. If every criminal was reasonably certain they would 1) get caught and go to jail, or 2) get shot by a citizen, I think there would be less crime.

The Distrct of Columbia has proven every year since the seventies that banning guns does not cause crime to decrease. It has increased many times over that period.
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.
OK, so there's at least one reasonable person in Texas.
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:17 AM
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Exclamation *** "Don't come a'knockin' when I'm a'loadin'..." ***

What would be interesting is to see how long it took, ACTUALLY, for police to arrive on the scene, starting from the time the dispatcher took Mr. Horn's phone call, initially, until the LEOs finally arrived...

30 seconds?
2 minutes?
5 minutes?
10 minutes?
15 minutes?
More?

And, since Mr. Horn had a shotgun, and the burglars saw that, what, in their minds, made them decide Mr. Horn wasn't to be taken seriously?

THEIR previous experience with the law? That apparently sunk in real good...they must have thought Mr. Horn was a paper tiger...

Mr. Horn needs all the help he can get...

Remember, it only takes one bleeding-heart liberal, anti-gunner, to screw around with logic...then pretty soon, Mr. Horn will be doing hard-time north of Pecos, because some damn, feel-good, twinky THINKS he knows better...

Let's stick a broomstick in Mr. Twinky's hands and see if two (or more) burglars would take orders from Mr. Twinky to "...put down the stuff and wait right there for the police, 'cause I called 'em!"

My money's on the burglars turning Mr. Twinky's brains into crowbar-paste by the time the LEOs arrive.

And, maybe, that's what needs to happen to the first attorney that decides that the "victims" (the two DEAD burglars) need to be spoken for...

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Old 11-19-2007, 10:25 AM
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:38 AM
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I remember reading the story of a farmer in Britain that shot and killed one burgler INSIDE his house and wounded a second one. He was sent to prison and the wounded burgler sued him for shooting him, and won, according to the story.

I don't know if this was true and/or if it was accurate. I read it in the NRA's magazine, so it was some of their propaganda. Still, I can't imagine them making up something that could readily be verified.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee8go View Post
I remember reading the story of a farmer in Britain that shot and killed one burgler INSIDE his house and wounded a second one. He was sent to prison and the wounded burgler sued him for shooting him, and won, according to the story.

I don't know if this was true and/or if it was accurate. I read it in the NRA's magazine, so it was some of their propaganda. Still, I can't imagine them making up something that could readily be verified.
This can happen here.

The burglar sues in civil court for damages and only has to make the case that the property owner didn't absolutely need to shoot him and he'll win.

memo to self: If you choose to shoot a burglar........make sure you kill him.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
OK, so there's at least one reasonable person in Texas.

One reasonable person and two dead drug dealing illegals who were committing armed robbery, a capitol offense in Texas.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:19 AM
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Yah, I know, but what if Mr. Horn was a little too careless with his firearm and an innocent person was injured? If they were in his house, he could turn them into hash for all I care, but to chase at least one down the street was a little too much. It sounds as if he wanted to try a new Texas law out with the zeal an eight-year-old wants to ry a new Schwinn parked under the Christmas tree.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee8go View Post
I remember reading the story of a farmer in Britain that shot and killed one burgler INSIDE his house and wounded a second one. He was sent to prison and the wounded burgler sued him for shooting him, and won, according to the story.

I don't know if this was true and/or if it was accurate. I read it in the NRA's magazine, so it was some of their propaganda. Still, I can't imagine them making up something that could readily be verified.
I remember when that happened and it's true. As a Brit, I have mixed feelings about this one because the kid that was shot was fleeing, not armed and just a kid. He was hanging out of the window when he was shot in the back and the other fellow was also escaping when he was shot in the groin.

Gun's are very hard to come by in England (at least then) and firearms law is so strict that you can go to prison for carrying maze.

In the Farmer's case, it may have been considered excessive force to shoot him even though he had broken in. That said, England is a funny country when it comes to weapons law. I believe if someone is attacked in their own home, and they run into the Kitchen, grab a knife and stab the attacker, then it's considered self defense. If the knife is retrieved from under a mattress then then things start getting complicated.

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Last edited by alabbasi; 11-19-2007 at 12:15 PM.
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