This is non diesel, but the general tech level here is so high across the board I thought I'd ask.

Here's the problem. I have a chance to literally "Swap" cars straight across, with a friend here.

I'd bought a 1995 Subaru Outback AWD for the occasional light snow here.
Car is in excellent, rust/accident free shape, 2.2 engine, decent on gas, no problems. It's been well taken care of from new, no problems. It's never EVER given me problems, been bulletproof. But it has no soul, isn't very quick, and the seats are only average in comfort, compared to a Mercedes. All equipment, HVAC, electircs, EVERYTHING, works. Dependable.

It has new tires, new battery, a new timing belt, it's really nicely equipped, clean, has no issues, except a dent by one tail light where my father backed into a stone wall at the dentist's. Books (and records from 2002) on it.

My friend got a ride in it and loves it. Said she'd be interesting in swapping her Volvo for this car.

What do you guys think of this idea.

It's a bronze 1996 Volvo 960 (RWD) wagon with a 2.9 gas engine. I do know that these cars were the top of the line when new, and ran about $35-$37k new (I'd actually almost bought one of the 960's then then, but bought the Mercedes SEC instead so I like them).

I was especially attracted by them because they have the best seats in the business, and have a reputation for quality (back then), they are RWD, durability and safety. I owned a '91 Volvo 740 for about 10 years and it was a good car, I liked it.

This particular Volvo 960 wagon:

It has supposedly been refreshed by a local Volvo tech after sitting for about 6 months, and nothing is wrong with it. The cosmetics are decent, except for some nicks in the rear bumper and one broken rear tail light (about a $50 part). The tires look good, the leather seats/interior is OK except the vinyl covering on the front door sills is coming unglued. Everything else on it appears fine. She is a total non-car person, and a friend.

It originally belonged to a lawyer in her son's firm, and was purchased from him, and she got it from her son, who is a lawyer too. SO far as I know, it was never abused by children, pets or cigarette smoke.

She is elderly, but still drives, and used it mostly to haul her cello to concerts. The Subaru Outback could do that too.

I've been invited to drive the car, but have not yet done it, or asked to look at any books and records that might be with it. SO far as I know it has never been wrecked, and there is no rust on it.


There is no compelling reason to change, yet I do like the old luxury Volvos.
If I did it, it would be a straight across swap, no cash exchanged. I'm guessing each of these is worth about the same $$$, but she was the one who brought up the idea of a straight across trade. She likes the Outback a lot, loves its stereo/CD a lot
(its a premium one, sounds good) and she is a musician.

And a nice friend of mine too.

Assuming I took it for a drive, and had it looked through, and everything checked out, should I jump for this?

NO hurry at all on this.

My old Volvo mechanic where I used to live in San Francisco till a few years ago with my 740, said as a rule to avoid ANY Volvo with a "6" in its nomenclature, but never mentioned the 960 specifically though.

Are these RWD 960's any good in the light winter snow we sometimes get here? They are Swedish cars .... That was why I got the Subaru Outback about 5-6 years ago from the Subaru dealer in Sacramento: for that reason in the first place.....

What is also strange is that the Subie has 121k (garaged) and the Volvo has 121k also - almost equal miles on them both.

Would the swap be unfair to either side, assuming my guess of the value is pretty much the same for each, (I dont want to cheat anyone, or be cheated, and this is a friend), and assuming each car is in good shape (Subaru is in excellent shape)


Or am I being an utter fool to think of getting rid of a known quantity?


(The car gets light use, groceries mostly, the Mercedes goes on the long trips, the Subaru wagon gets around 1,000 - 2,000 miles a year of use, not very much at all.)


Any and all comments welcome!! I hope you don't mind my asking here, but the best techs are here, and some of you could really speak to this, I am sure, with wisdom and authority.)

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

I'll bet the Subaru will be MUCH less of a money pit than the Volvo, plus being easier to get parts for and easier to work on. I think I'd keep the status quo. JMHO.

__________________
95 SL500 Smoke Silver, Parchment 64K
07 E350 4matic Station Wagon White 34K
02 E320 4Matic Silver/grey 80K
05 F150 Silver 44K

i think the tougher part is that the friendship could dissolve if either party has much trouble with their car in the first year or so..

this second part is sort of off topic...but i once bought a used 240d Volvo.. it was so slow and couldn't get across lanes of traffic fast enough in my opinion.

i traded it straight up for a honda wagon.. it was a good choice in hindsight. Of course this was 20 years ago..

__________________
1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines). (Gone)

1997 s320 154k (what a ride). Sold with 179k miles. Replaced with Hyundai Equus

1994 e320 Cabriolet 108k



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


[/SIGPIC]

Your nuts the Outback is a better car. I have heard many Volve horror stories, while everyone raves about how Subaru's never break.


I'd want to trade an old Volvo for a Subaru to, thats a good deal for the Volvo owner!

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Jim, you need to check the 700/900 FAQ first:

http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/

1996 960's had many improvements done and are quite reliable. The engine is a DOHC interference engine and needs to have its timing belt changed at the correct interval, including the tensioner and idler pulley as well as the warwe pump which is driven by the timing belt. All the new Volvo 'white' or aluminum engines, are the same except for the number of cylinders.

The transmission is the AW 30-40L used in the LS400. The rear suspension probably needs all it's bolts tightened a quarter turn. Expect A/C problems in a car that old. The evaporator is easy to go by removing the air bag and supports.

I wrote some of the FAQ items.

I would question why someone would want to swap cars. Yes, I owned a 96 965 and it was a fine car.

__________________
Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

As a rabid Subaru fan, you'd have to pry the Scoob out of my cold, dead, hands. We're on our third Scoob now and can't believe what great cars they are. When I replace the MB, it will be with a Subaru.

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I think it's a neutral swap. I'd be happy with either car.

The 960 is the last rear wheel drive Volvo, which I like.

From 1992-1997 it was badged as the 960, and in 1998 it was re-badged as a V90.

The engine is an inline-6, which my Volvo mechanic told me was a great engine.

It is the V6 in the 760 series that was a nightmare engine.

My cousin in Agoura Hills drives a 1996 960 sedan, and he has well over 100,000 miles on it, and he loves it.

My wife drives a 2000 S70 with the inline-5 engine, and it is just shy of 90,000 miles, and it has been a completely trouble free vehicle.

I am both a Subaru and Volvo fan, so I think this is a fair swap. It just comes down to if you'd rather have an AWD vehicle, or a rear wheel drive car that is bigger inside, has the most comfortable seats you have ever sat in, and has a covernous rear storage area.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Why did you get rid of it?

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Well, Good Luck w your decision
I do know your findness for the Volvo
Just had mine out the other day
My workhorse
exchanged 2 6 pk of diet coke for 10 gal crystal geyers water

My 88 740 GLE at 125K is ole faitthful\
Its not a mercedes at 4 cylinder
but it serves its master well


lol\\\\

Good Luck

You could always wait til I had to part w my Volvo

__________________


83 500 SEC Euro 198K

The cousin I mentioned above who bought the 960 sedan previously owned an '86 740 GL.

He put over 400,000 miles on it before retiring it. He commuted back-and-forth between Agoura Hills and downtown L.A. every day. Believe it or not, the head had never been off the car. The reasons why he retired the car were three-fold: the windshield had a big crack in it, the rack and pinion was leaking, and finally, the a/c broke. Too many things to fix, so he hired a broker to go to the car auction, and brought back a low-mileage black 960 sedan. This was about 5-6 years ago, and he's still driving the car.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Those old RWD Volvos have about a 32 foot turning radius, I think some are actually under 32 feet. They feel like you could do a u-turn in your driveway. I have a FWD Volvo and it's a fine car but they never should have given up on RWD.

That is very true, I campaigned one for years on the streets of San Francisco, where nabbing that elusive parking space (talkabout the quick and the dead!!) is a Darwinian experience.


But, is a RWD Volvo any good in light snow? They ARE built in Sweden..

Is this vid some BS??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSZLSfBDyhs

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Hi Paul,

I have heard similar feats from the 4 cyl B23 or is it B230 engine being almost bullet proof.

AC was always cold
but it gave out this summer
May just need a charge but I got the benz & funds were diverted

Timing belt was just changed & water pump preventative
Front bushings went so they are new now
Cat converter went but got a aftermarket as volvos are $800

Other than minor things car runs well

Funny thing my volvo mech is off Lindley on Ventura just a few blocks from Enrique all this time.

Love the turning rad too.

The Volvo is good workhorse

My Volvo recommened the 960 when I asked him about the 83 500 SEC
which he said was too old...& people who owned them didn't have to ask how much it cost to fix.

I guess he had a point but Volvos parts are not cheap either

__________________


83 500 SEC Euro 198K

I think with 4 good snow tires you're fine. They obviously had studded snow tires and were very good drivers. It's credible that people in Sweden learn how to drive in the snow.

Good points, especially considering how infrequently you go in the snow, Jim.

I have to tell you, I'm leaning towards the Volvo on this one. The seats in these cars are by far the most comfortable seats in the automotive world. The seats in my wife's 2000 S70 put the seats in my E430 to shame.

I also see the 960 wagon as a superior utility vehicle. The car is a full size bigger than the Subbie, and the rear cargo area is simply cavernous. Just think of all the use you'd get out of it bringing home supplies from the hardware store, hauling plants and a bag of mulch from the nursery, or bringing home antiques from the swap meet.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".