I have decided that I'm tired of driving "old" cars. I've heard enough veiled insults, and "smart aleck" remarks about my "clunkers". So, I'm selling them all. The 94 Cadillac Deville Concours, the 81 Cadillac Seville, the 94 Lincoln Town Car, and the 86 Mercedes 560SEL. I just haven't decided what to buy with the money yet. I am figuring I'll have around 7000-8000 dollars, so, if I want to save a little of the money, I think that I can afford either a 2000-2001 Cadillac Deville, or a 1996-1997 Mercedes E320.

Opinions on which would be the better value greatly appreciated,

Dave

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Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

I'd much rather sit in my '96 E300 than any Cadillac. I don't know about the quality of the Cadillac, but I do know that there are a few expensive problems that you can have with the early 210. I'd recommend a later one; they're still cheap.

The only Cadillac I'd want is one of the new CTS cars. They're surprisingly nice... good ride, surprisingly non Cadillac-like handling.

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

Hello Dave,

I think I see exactly where you might be coming from. I kind of feel like I do anyway

Is this an impulse decision "had enough the old clunkers"?

Have you analyzed it carefully as to each of these?

I will start you with one:

For example the 1994 Lincoln Town cars, were about midway through the 1990-1997 design cycle. They are luxury versions of the Panther platform (Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis) and VERY tough and long lasting cars, (olicve cars and taxi versions, the Crown Vic, take terrible abuse and yet last hundreds of thousands of miles, comfortable, spacious, VERY expensive when new, ("Signature series cost about $35k when new back then) and well loved by the livery companies which buy huge numbers of them.

They are the last of the BOF, RWD, cast iron block, big traditional American cars that were perfected since time began, and the Town Cars chassis dates from 1979, so the bugs are out of it now, the 4.6efi engine, HVAC, and transmission are very durable, and they get decent gas mileage for such a big car, and big enough to be pretty safe in a wreck.

I use to rent cars like this in Arizona, and I loved them. I couldn't think of a better way to get from Tucson to Phoenix and back, at the time. Really good for relaxed highway cruising. The trunk so big you could put furniture or bicycles in them.

Lots of arguments to keep it if it is mechanically and cosmetically sound and not rusty or a refugee from a freeway pile up.

This is just a start. I think you need more opinions and discussion before you jump into anything.

I would be a little wary of the FWD Cadillacs, I have heard that the quality on some of these is less than stellar, and the Northstar engines are not that wonderful.

I would give the big DTS a look, myself. A couple of years old one off lease or from a rental fleet can be a bargain,considering they cost over $40k when new; you would be surprised

I would NEVER, by the way, use insults of friends as a reason to trade cars.

I'd owned Crown Victorias for years, and was constantly derided for so doing
even by my own wife!!! at the time for driving old man cars like these.

I'd owned big Olds 88s, Coupe de Villes and stuff too, even before I was 40.
Hell with the complaints.

My remarks about the positive qualites about the big V* cars were borne out by experience, especially the comofrt ans safety: My 79 Cad coupe de Ville was rear ended at 40 mph by an uninusred boy in a 66 Pontiac and survived the hit well and so did my Crown Vics that got broadsided by a 1958 Ford Moving van and a VW bug that ran a red light, neither one insured, and was never injured owning these cars.

Safety counts.

I must say that the ribbing about cars I drove finally did cease, from friends, after I purchased the Mercedes Benz 560 SEC as certified pre owned a few years from new at a Mercedes dealer near Disneyland.

But from my wife, IT NEVER STOPPED. NEVER.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Buy a '96 -- '99 E300D or TD, is my Rx.

Skip the Cadillac aging ghetto-cruisers........

Caddy's are junk unless you get a nearly new one. They just started getting good again, like in 2005/6.

Whats wrong with the 560 other than being a gas hog? Any 90's E class will probably get better mileage but at $7k your going to be looken at well worn examples. It would probably be cheaper to sell the other cars, keep the 560 and just pay for the gas.

I understand though, as soon as I get some cash coming in I want a damn near new or new MB.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Well, its not just the ribbing from my friends. Its also the fact that my cars are pretty well worn. The 94 Cadillac Concours has 192k miles, and is about shot, pretty much the same story for the Seville. The town car burns a quart of oil every 400 miles, and leaves a cloud of blue oily smoke behind me everywhere it goes. Its color scheme is also troubling. It is white with a blue "ragtop" fake convertible top, and the "gold" package. I know it is utterly tasteless, but I bought it under "unusual" circumstances, so I was stuck with that. The 560 will need a front end rebuild, a new hydromat strut in the rear, ac compressor replacement, paint job, repair/replacement of wood veneers, not to mention resealing the tranny, and the engine needs a timing chain job, rear main seal, upper and lower oil pan gaskets, as well as the sunroof has quit working and started rattling.

It is though a decision that I have been considering carefully for sometime, because I have grown quite attached to my old cars. I hate to part with them, in a way, but I can't afford to buy another car and keep all of these, too.

Dave

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Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

My dad has a 2002 Cadillac Deville "DHS". Everything a MB isn't. Floaty ride, low ground clearance, horrible turning radius, FWD. But if that's your thing, go for it, try to find one owned by an old person who didn't take it out much.

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'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I see where you're coming from with the aging and soon to be troublesome fleet. I vote for:

1. Benz, diesel of course.

2. Lincoln Town Car/Mercury Grand Marquis/Ford Crown Victoria. On a $7-8k budget you should be able to get a very nice low-mileage example. They depreciate rapidly, but they also last a long time (not quite as long as W123 diesels, but close). If you're planning on keeping it for a number of years, it works out rather well.

3. Something else that isn't a Cadillac. I'm sorry, I just don't like anything Cadillac has made since about 1991.

Incidently, your '94 Town Car probably just needs valve seals. This was a common problem on the early 4.6's that was fixed around '95.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

ghetto-cruiser now theres a phrase i haven't heard since i had one in the late 70's.

I suggest staying with the Caddy idea but going for something a little more sporty:

I have no experience or knowledge with the late 90's E Class. That said, I'd probably avoid the Caddy. I really like what they are doing with them now but the early '00's are a crap shoot.

I'm in the process of doing almost the exact opposite. My plan is to sell my '00 Jeep in the spring (after I'm done plowing) and also fix up and unload a '99 Grand Caravan Sport I still own. I'll always have a late model car/van/SUV for my wife to haul the kids and herself around in safely and reliably. But for myself, my intention is buy a couple of emissions exempt, dirt cheap property tax-wise cars/trucks to play around with (like my '80 TD). I'm not looking for beaters, I hope to find some nice looking ones, but ones that I would just carry liability insurance on and be comfortable with. My Jeep was about $450 in property taxes, the Caravan about $250 (my wife's Odyssey almost $500). I know that's not as much as some, but it's too much as far as I'm concerned.

OTOH I don't give a flying F what anyone else thinks about what I'm driving. I'll drive what I want to drive. I'm not out to impress anyone. (Good thing, eh? )

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

That puts things into perspective, at a good independent dealer and body shop all that stuff for the Mercedes 560 sould run you well over $5,000 is a wild ass guess. That makes the cost of repairs exceed it value, pretty likely.
It isn't worth much used with all that work in front of it.

I'd look around at 560SELs that are used, and see what a nice one goes for.
The secret is that the 300SE and SEL, if you are willing to give up fast merging and passing abilities the 560, are worth a look. Sometimes you get somikin' deals on them, as people over look these. The gas mileage is better.

I'd personally think about clearing out your entire fleet, get rid of them all, they are in rattletrap status now, or get rid of the m all and bring the Mercedes back to snuff, if you fix everything it will come back as good as new. AN especially good idea if you knwo the history of the car, and like it.

Dont pay attention to the sneers and jibes of your friends though

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

Well, I drove a 97 E320 yesterday, and I wasn't impressed. It ran good, but the interior wasn't very well made (IMO) and it was kind of ugly. It also did not seem to "drive" like a Mercedes Benz, at least not when compared to the W124/W126 ones I've had. So, no offense to the W210 guys, I'm sure you all really like these cars, but they aren't for me.

So, I got to thinking, if I am only going to have one car, (however, I may buy a 90's Buick Lesabre for work, but they are very low maintenance), I figure that a W140 can't cost me more to keep up than the combined cost of the 560SEL, the Deville Concours, and the Town Car. So, from what I can see, I can either buy a 92-95 low mileage 140, or a high mileage 96-97 model. Which is the better value, and which is generally less troublesome? I see that Jim mentioned another W126, but, although the 126 is a great car, I'd really like to move to a newer car.

Dave

__________________
Currently Driving:
1986 Mercedes Benz 560SEL
1994 Lincoln Town Car
1994 Cadillac Deville
1985 Lincoln Town Car- Retired

The Official Car of a Realtor- Lincoln Town Car
The Official Car of the Successful Independent Insurance Agent- Mercedes Benz S Class

If you are only going to have one, that is a Mercedes Benz, don't even think about one of those W140 cars. A good one, if you are lucky, might be a S320 or an S500. Stay away from the Rodbender 350 Diesels and the V12s whatever you do..

There is nothing like them when they are running good, powerful, stately, comfortable and very safe.

But they were built when Mercedes tried to out-Japanese the Japanese for a while, and had lots of gimmicks like soft closing doors, dual retracting periscope antennae on the rear trunk, that engaged in reverse, many other gadgets and gimmicks on them.

The Airconditioners on them - never a Mercedes strong point then, were especially bad on these. It was said that on them, the evaporator was suspended on a string and the whole car was built around it.

One time, I saw one in for repairs, at a Mercedes dealer in Santa Rosa (Smothers MB) and it was a horror; the front seats and dasboard were out of the car, wires everywhere, what a mess.

The book rate for reapirs on this job says 22 hours, and at $150 an hour at the dealer, well, do the math. It could be THOUSANDS of dollars before you know it. And that is just for ONE job.

Before I get jumped with replies from you happy W140 owners, I will say that yes, lots of them never gave their owners trouble.

Many were fine. But especially avoid the W140 S350 rod bender diesels, and the V12 S600, a bad one would eat you alive. The S320 and S500 seem to be the best ones out there, so maybe a good one, if you can find one, would work.

But even as during the W140 model run, some of the problems in the earlier ones got cleared up, at the same time, new ones appeared, like cheaper leather stitching, wiring harness problems due to the evironmentally friendly material used in them, and late models had lots of different quality and repair problems with them too.

If you can find a good one, fine. But beware, they could be fraught with problems.


Ever thought about a nice W124? Or full circle, back to the W126 again?

Or how about a gently used Towncar, Grand Marquis or Crown Victoria, I noticed you had a Towncar, I had two of them too, before, and '82 & '88 Crown Vic, and each was comfortable, safe, roomy, and considering the cost of gas, insurance and repairs, it was the cheapest car to run I ever owned, though as I sais, I was mercilessly hounded and ridiculed for driving this "geezer car" by my frieneds, and wife.

They could be picked up for a good price, and the newer ones have ABS and much modern equipment, they can make a good buy if you want a comfortable roomy car that is safe and has low running costs

__________________
1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)