The question is simple. Did those banned materials go in or not? It only requires a Yes or a No. Either it did go in like the list said or everybody lied. There are no other options. I suppose saying that the Martians took it away is a possibility.

I cannot tell you if they did or not.
And apparently no one else can either.

Still no reason for war and torture.

Go watch.

http://www.taxitothedarkside.com/

Well, either you believe that all the countries involved conspired with their industries to create this fake list or the list is correct. If the list and documentation of receipt is not faked then they did receive the goods. It is really that simple. You are confusing it with other issues.

What do you mean "no one else can"? There was proof that the said materials went it. I export stuff from the US all the time and I can tell you that there is a huge paper trail concerned. All sorts of export documents, payments, etc, etc. It would take a huge cover up to make up something that large.

Irrelevant to the question.

Perhaps it does matter "who plants the seed" given history, which your statement seemingly gives little importance. Another factor is what influence, and the amount, the democracy is "legitimate" as opposed to another flavor of imperialism or manipulated by a larger power.

If nothing is found, nothing is found.

This thread is about our involvement in torture.
The link is to a movie about the subject.

Oh, that's good. Real fancy footwork you got there. Never answer the question directly because you might get an answer you don't want to hear.

Somehow it got brought up. And you seemed to go along till the tough questions came and then you ducked. Personally, I'm only sad it wasn't done widespread. If I didn't mind traveling, I'd do it for free.

So what? You posted it before. Trying to get more traction by posting it again? How about the other side of the story. We know this one side.

Dude I cannot attest to something I had nothing to do with.
I cannot answer your questions because I have no personal experience.
Go ask Joe Wilson.
He was there.
Ask him if Saddam got yellow cake from Africa like George Bush and Dick Chaney said.

I am not ducking anything.

Here, here is Joe's story.
And before you discount it figure out the roll he played in the first act of this war.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

Go read !!!

And for all anyone knows the Israelis blew all his siht to kingdom come.

It

I cannot attest to something I have no personal knowledge of.
Go ask Joe Wilson.
He was there.
Did Saddam get yellow cake from Africa like George Bush and Dick Chaney said he did ?

And before you discount what he has to say, find out the roll he played in act one of this war.

Here, here is a link to some of his stuff.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

Go Read !!!!!!

For all we know the Israelis blew all his stuff to kingdom come.

There was no justification for this war.
Not then, not now.
And defiantly no reason to torture anyone.

.

Perhaps I am not being as clear as I thought.

Clearly El Salvador and Nicaragua, Japan, and South Korea are democracies today because of our meddling in their playgrounds. In Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega got religion at the point of a gun and has discovered the virtue of moderation and elections and has been elected to power. Good, that's as it should be. Too bad he didn't think of that, first.

But a late democrat is better than no democrat ... as is the case in North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam.

B

Your price of "American bred" South American democracy is a bit high when you factor in the death and destruction wrought by our former "friends." Or perhaps a few nuns were worth it?

Well, you seem to be convinced that there was no reason for the war. I assumed you knew how they figured out what he was supposed to have. Perhaps I was mistaken in assuming you knew about that part.

Yes, I have not been convinced that there was a good reason for this war.

Let alone torturing people.

You talk like everyone knew that Saddam had all of these weapons of mass destruction, and biological capabilities.
There was no proof of anything.
Before we started the war, and there is still no proof to this day.

The government tried to spin the facts, and convince everyone that there was some kind of threat, when there was none.
Then comes 9/11 and that was spun into a a reason to go into Iraq.
And people believed it.
People believe now that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

Every dam thing we hear out of our government about it has come out to be a lie.
One lie after another.
And still people believe it.

They wanted to impeach Clinton for telling congress that a bj was not sex.
Why the hell don't they impeach this whole administration ?
How many times have they lied, and been caught in it.

But people still believe the boogie monster is out there waiting to get them. And the government keeps pushing the fear card.

It is just sickening.
How have people become so gullible ?

The death of a few innocent people sacrificed (for whatever reason) to secure liberty for millions: Are you serious?

Inverting it a moment: Would you offer your life in exchange for the liberty of millions of your countrymen? I would. And have.

It is my good fortune that I was not asked to pay-up. you do understand the concept of co-signing, don't you?

B

I believe more people have offered their opinion about "waterboarding" on this thread than have, actually, been subjected to it for informational purposes.

Why isn't Congress questioning us? Aren't we, now, the enemy?

Vietnam, GWI, GWII, Laos, N. Korea, Cuba...et al...

Offering ghosts to testify about incidences that have no bearing on the cost of tea in Tibet, let alone China, is ludicrous...

Trying to re-write history to fit the supposed current political winds is folly at best, insulting the knowledgeable. Why must the majority ALWAYS HAVE TO FIGHT to keep the simplest things straight.

Because, the radical will not, or never, except the position that they are wrong...their point WAS NOTED, and found, to be invalid.

But, like the squeaky wheel, it continues to irritate. The problem?

Our (the GOOD GUYS') society doesn't allow us to remove that squeaky wheel and toss it aside and continue on down the road...a three-wheeled cart doesn't hold its load as well as a four-wheeled cart.

The only way that fourth wheel stays on the axle is that there must be liberal amounts of grease (reason) applied before the wheel quiets down. The "grease" doesn't, necessarily, fix the mating surfaces of the axle and the wheel's bearing, but it makes the whole cart-thing a lot more bearable to be around and listen to...

But, what I don't like to see and hear is...that fourth wheel implying that the other three wheels are too quite and the noise that the fourth wheel is eminating is better, and truer, than anything anyone's heard before.

Squeaky wheels needs a lot of grease...otherwise, I'd be tempted to carry a lighter load and remove the fourth wheel all together...it seems that the grease is getting a bit sparse... :rolleyes:

Surely you are joking. What proof do you require? The dead Iranians? Not a very talkative bunch. The dead Kurds? The seem pretty quiet too. Give me a break. There were tons of documentation to prove he receieved the precursors or do you deny that? Oh wait. You weren't there so you don't know for sure. :rolleyes:

Good question. Lets start with the VP Cheney. Oh wait, they already did that. See THIS thread.
Debate on Cheney Impeachment Averted

By JIM ABRAMS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, November 6, 2007; 4:46 PM

WASHINGTON -- House Democrats on Tuesday narrowly managed to avert a bruising debate on a proposal to impeach Dick Cheney after Republicans, in a surprise maneuver, voted in favor of taking up the measure.

Republicans, changing course midway through a vote, tried to force Democrats into a debate on the resolution sponsored by longshot presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.

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The anti-war Ohio Democrat, in his resolution, accused Cheney of purposely leading the country into war against Iraq and manipulating intelligence about Iraq's ties with Al-Qaida.

The GOP tactics reversed what had been expected to be an overwhelming vote to table, or kill, the resolution.

Midway through the vote, with instructions from the GOP leadership, Republicans one by one changed their votes from yes _ to kill the resolution _ to no, trying to force the chamber into a debate and an up-or-down vote on the proposal.

At one point there were 290 votes to table. After the turnaround, the final vote was 251-162 against tabling, with 165 Republicans voting against it.

"We're going to help them out, to explain themselves," said Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Texas. "We're going to give them their day in court."

Democrats countered by offering a motion to refer the proposal to the House Judiciary Committee for further study, effectively preventing a debate on the House floor. That motion passed by a largely party-line vote of 218-194.

The White House, in a statement, said Democrats were shirking responsibilities on issues such as childrens' health insurance "and yet they find time to waste an afternoon on an impeachment vote against the vice president. ... This is why Americans shake their head in wonder about the priorities of this Congress."

Kucinich has long pushed for a vote to impeach Cheney, but has failed to win the backing of the Democratic leadership. After Kucinich introduced the resolution, House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., immediately moved to table it.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi "has said that impeachment is off the table and that the new direction Congress is focused on responsibly and honorably redeploying our troops out of Iraq, covering 10 million uninsured children and meeting our national priorities long neglected by the Bush Administration," said her spokesman Nadeam Elshami.

The resolution said that Cheney, "in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of vice president," had "purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States by fabricating a threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction to justify the use of the U.S. Armed Forces against the nation of Iraq in a manner damaging to our national security interests."

The 11-page resolution also charged that Cheney purposely deceived the nation about an alleged relationship between Iraq and Al-Qaida and has "openly threatened aggression against the Republic of Iran absent any real threat to the United States."

House approval of an article of impeachment sends the issue to the Senate, which has the constitutional authority to try and, with a two-thirds vote, remove a person from office.