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-   -   Turns Out, We Do Torture (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/212871-turns-out-we-do-torture.html)

cudaspaz 02-07-2008 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm (Post 1755411)
You're wrong Hatterasguy...and insensitive. We need to build rapport and get to know them and reason with them. They're really just like you and me just misunderstood. I'm really glad you're not in charge.

Jim Jones was "misunderstood", Marshall Applewhite was "misunderstood", Charles Manson was "Misunderstood", Timothy McVeigh was "misunderstood", the teenage Palestinian girl that walked into a Jewish wedding and blew herself and 20 other peole into bits was 'Misunderstood",a whole society of young, brainwashed children being taught to kill themselves and others is "Misunderstood",no,....... glad YOU are not running the country.

cudaspaz 02-07-2008 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 1755384)
The instances you speculate on are so unlikely to actually happen that they are about useless in debate about whether or not to use waterboading or other torture.

One of the head interrogators during the Vietnam war and other conflicts since has spoken out on the ineffectiveness of torture. He says that by isolating prisoners and building up rapport, there were able to get reliable infor simply by getting messages from the guy's family to him, and simple stuff like that.

Of course if I catch someone with a rusty knife to the throat of someone I love I'm going to do my best to disarm, kill, whatever. It's a bogus hypothetical, not far from: "We find a guy -- we know he knows where a nuclear bomb is hidden that is set to go off in 24 hours . . . . "

Yeah, right.

You avoided that question and turned it around on itself rather well without answering the original question.

Are you running for office, or do you not have any loved one's important enough to contemplate the scenario, or is your denial so strong that it clouds any further thought into the matter?

This is the reason why liberal talk radio can't cut it.

They can never argue an important point head on, they twist the subject to avoid any involvement in a position that may remotely disagree with their own agenda.

When are you gonna get it, YOU CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS!

They don't care if you want to talk peace with them, they don't want peace, they want to kill you and me, and everyone else that does not feel the same way as they do about the radical Islamic fascist regime.

You cannot negotiate with that.
They tried that, it does not work.

They use positions such as yours for media compassion, and would just as soon cut your throat as the guy who's actually willing to stand up to them and fight.

Move over, and let the ass kickers take care of the problem so you can ridicule them back home while they make your world safe, warm and fuzzy.

John Doe 02-07-2008 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm (Post 1754976)
Its really distasteful to me that there are so many "blame America first" Americans. The majority of the responses to MTI's original post are from Americans who write the kind of stuff of which I am proud. The Daily Kos, and Democratic Underground would generate more sympathetic comments, I think.

Here, here. Thanks.

John Doe 02-07-2008 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 1755384)
The instances you speculate on are so unlikely to actually happen that they are about useless in debate about whether or not to use waterboading or other torture.


I am not going to spill the beans, but you couldn't be more wrong.

John Doe 02-07-2008 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudaspaz (Post 1755775)
Jim Jones was "misunderstood", Marshall Applewhite was "misunderstood", Charles Manson was "Misunderstood", Timothy McVeigh was "misunderstood", the teenage Palestinian girl that walked into a Jewish wedding and blew herself and 20 other peole into bits was 'Misunderstood",a whole society of young, brainwashed children being taught to kill themselves and others is "Misunderstood",no,....... glad YOU are not running the country.


'Spaz--methinks you missed a little sarcasm by a teammate;)

cudaspaz 02-07-2008 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe (Post 1755794)
'Spaz--methinks you missed a little sarcasm by a teammate;)

Oh sorry, let's just pretend I didn't LOL!

A little daily bruising of one's ego (mine) never hurts.

Txjake 02-07-2008 10:33 AM

we need to kill every terrorist we can get a sight picture on, those we capture, we need to "interogate" until they tell us where we find more to kill. we are talking survival of our culture, of our nation, our children.

I have been to the middle east before. I don't want my grandchildren to grow up in a country influenced by Sh'arian law............

RichC 02-07-2008 11:29 AM

.

If we torture people

we are becoming the terrorists.

.

John Doe 02-07-2008 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC (Post 1755860)
.

If we torture people

we are becoming the terrorists.

.

Then stop posting and there will be one less....

Dee8go 02-07-2008 11:57 AM

Even though I tend to FEEL like it's fine to torture terrorists sometimes, I also believe it's probably counterproductive. Also, as has been pointed out above, by using the same techniques as our enemies, we are lowering ourselves to their standards. We can't do stuff like that without doing greivous injury to ourselves. There's a price to be paid for everything.

Dee8go 02-07-2008 11:58 AM

Sorry, I didn't mean to break out of my usually silly perspective and get all serious . . . forgive me, please.

Medmech 02-07-2008 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe (Post 1755884)
Then stop posting and there will be one less....

Took the words out of my mouth.

Hatterasguy 02-07-2008 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go (Post 1755889)
Even though I tend to FEEL like it's fine to torture terrorists sometimes, I also believe it's probably counterproductive. Also, as has been pointed out above, by using the same techniques as our enemies, we are lowering ourselves to their standards. We can't do stuff like that without doing greivous injury to ourselves. There's a price to be paid for everything.


You can't win a war by taking the high road, thats one of those things that sounds really good in a classroom on campus. In the real world you have to walk through the same mud as the people you are trying to kill. You can't just sit back on a ship and launch a few missles, sometimes you have to beat the piss out of someone in a dirty little back room to get the needed results.

Dee8go 02-07-2008 02:40 PM

As long as you realize the cost of doing that, that's certainly true. I've always thought it's best to fight fire with fire, but as I have gotten older, I have realized that that can take a serious toll on individuals and on nations.

jlomon 02-07-2008 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy (Post 1756043)
You can't win a war by taking the high road, thats one of those things that sounds really good in a classroom on campus. In the real world you have to walk through the same mud as the people you are trying to kill. You can't just sit back on a ship and launch a few missles, sometimes you have to beat the piss out of someone in a dirty little back room to get the needed results.

I agree with you. I think there are instances where you need to employ methods that are distasteful. My problem with the use of these methods are two-fold.

1) Making sure the guy you're beating the crap out of is a real bad guy. He could be some poor schmuck that got "informed on" by some petty power rival. He might not even be the guy that you thought he was. It happens. Torturing the wrong person because you think they have information is not consistent with the values that we hold as westerners.

2) The way in which the US government is trying to play a semantic game about what they are actually doing and why they are doing it. If the government just came out and said basically the same thing you did, then they wouldn't be hypocrites. Maybe it is too much to ask from any government or any politician. Believe me, the politicians in my country are every bit as mealy-mouthed. There are numerous instances of Canadian soldiers taking prisoners in Afghanistan, where the prisoners are "transferred" to Afghani authorities, and you just know what goes on then.


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