Cleveland 351 Engine- - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mistress · #1 03-20-2008, 10:05 AM

Just curious, what made them so good and were these the engines used in Checker cabs many moons ago?

Jim B. · #2 03-20-2008, 10:13 AM

The 351 Cleveland engine, if I recall, was rarer, and more coveted, high performance engine.

The 351 Windsor was the workaday one, found in trucks too, and Police cars as the "Interceptor" engine.

I am pretty sure the "Windsor" engine was made in the STAP in Windsor, Ontario Canada, and you can guess yourself where the Cleveland engine was made.

1991 was the last year the 351 went in any of the passenger cars, (Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis and 1990 for the
Town car), and in those last years they had carb trouble.

By 1992 they were all running the new, highly touted by Ford, modular 4.6 engine with EFI, which they still do today.

A tough, durable, long lasting engine, that will never win prizes for fuel economy or efficiency.

Probably the best one to have would be one in a 1969-1970 Mustang "Boss 351", with few smog controls, a screamin' tire smoking, REAL muscle car with a real V8 american rumble at idle

PaulC · #3 03-20-2008, 10:26 AM

I think V8 versions of Checker cabs used Chevrolet engines. The sole powerplant for the 1990 Town Car was the Ford 302 engine.

BobK · #4 03-20-2008, 10:27 AM

The Windsor was the everyday workhorse engine. The Cleveland was the high performance engine. Much sought after. Funny thing was, the Cleveland wound up in some more family type cars like the Montego. This made them real sleepers and later made those cars sought after by folks who wanted a Cleveland engine for for other car. Buy the car, jerk the engine and then scrap the car. And the rule with the hot car crowd was "where a 302 goes, a 351 will follow". As I recall, a mild blueprint and build on a Cleveland would make 441 hp. On pump gas.

OMEGAMAN · #5 03-20-2008, 10:49 AM

I dont know if they were used in checkers or not but what made the cleveland great was it's cyl heads and high compression ratio. They made 2 different style of heads. 1 for 2 bbl carbs and 1 for 4 bbl carbs. have a look at the intake ports on a 2bbl head and you will see what I mean then just imagine what the 4bbl heads look like.

Pete Geither · #6 03-20-2008, 10:58 AM

I drove a Pantera back in the day and I believe it had the Cleveland engine,,,, that sucker would sure rip.

LUVMBDiesels · #7 03-20-2008, 11:07 AM

I don't think they were used in Checkers. I believe they used Chevy 327/350 as well as AMC six cylinder engines...

Ken300D · #8 03-20-2008, 12:15 PM

I seem to remember the 351C had a bigger, wider block and would not fit in the same space as a 351W.

Ken300D

t walgamuth · #9 03-20-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken300D

I seem to remember the 351C had a bigger, wider block and would not fit in the same space as a 351W.

Ken300D

Thats right except it would fit most places the windsor would.

The windsor and clevelend look a lot alike until you sit them side by side. The cleveland has a bigger block, bigger heads bigger manifolds and absoulutely HUGE intake and exhaust ports.

The cleveland is an absoulute horse of an engine.

As Jim said, tough durable and thirsty.

Tom W

Mistress · #10 03-20-2008, 01:43 PM

Maybe this will help.

http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=132

veggihatetank · #11 03-20-2008, 02:08 PM

As a former Ford nut that owned a 2bbl 351 Cleveland I can tell you that it was the canted valve head design that makes them valuable.It was designed to get similar permormance as a Hemi and the 4bbl heads are almost identical to the ones used on the Boss 302.The last time I checked almost all Ford racers used the Austrailian version of the cleveland which was manufactured longer than here in the US.

75Sv1 · #12 03-20-2008, 03:45 PM

There were three ford 351 Cid engines for production. The 351 W(indsor), 351 C(levevland) and 351 M(odified??). I think the 351W came out in 1969 and the 351C in 1971 or 72. The 351M maybe in 76. don't quote me on those years. The 351R was a racing block for Nascar.
The 351W had 2V(barrel) and 4V heads in 69 and 70. The 4V heads were prized untill the after market sarted to make some heads. The 351W morfed into the 5.8, as the 302 morfed into the 5.0. So, you could get basically a 351W with fuel injection. Mainly in trucks, but I think the Mustang Cobra first year had a 5.8 in it.
The 351 C had a 2V head nad a 4V head. The 2V has streetable intake and exhuast ports, but open combustion chambers. They couldn't take to much compression ration, like 9:1. The 4v had large intake and exhuast ports. To much for the street, maybe even for racing. The 4v had closed combustion chambers. The Austrailian head ahd streetable ports and closed combustion chambers. The aussie heads and blocks were used in NASCAR in the late 70's to late 80's. the 351C had a smaller diameter crank journal (1.750), less drag. Also, used in the Pantera.
The 351M was a mutt, along with its sibling the 400M. It was used in Trucks and Full sized Broncos. It was a mixture of 351C and 351W specs. But I don't think much interchanged with the other engines. I think the bore spread was like the 351W, the heads like the 2V 351C with closed chamber and the front cover like the 351C.
The dirt track racers also mixed parts to make the 351 Clevor. Basically the 351W, with 351C heads and a custom intake manifold.
Tom

KarTek · #13 03-20-2008, 03:49 PM

I put a 1970 351C with Cobra Jet heads in a 1973 Mercury Capri. The intake runners and valves were gigantic for a "small block" - nearly as large as a big block Chevy. The size of the runners restricted low end torque which wasn't a problem on the light weight Capri.

These engines would really make power in the upper RPM ranges and I believe they were used for NASCAR Fords at the time after CID was restricted to 355.

E150GT · #14 03-20-2008, 03:53 PM

A 1993 cobra had a 5.0

DeliveryValve · #15 03-20-2008, 07:35 PM

The Cleveland’s were one of my favorite hot rodding motors when I was into hot rodding in the early nineties. I’ve built a 4V engine and 2V Aussie head versions. I can tell you this, those 4V ports could ventilate a diamond mine! Great for high RPM, does little for low end stuff! Check out the pic of one my 4V intake valves compared to a 617.952 injector and a quarter. At 2.25 inches diameter it is just ridicules! The Aussie head made the motor much more street kind.

BTW – In regards to the 351M and 400M, the common name is "Modified". But most people don’t know that the engine is actually named after it the Michigan Casting Center (MCC) in Flint Rock, MI, where it was initially produced. The naming convention follows the place where they were manufactured like the 351 Cleveland’s were produced in Cleveland Casting Plant (CCP) and the 351 Windor’s were produced at the Windsor Casting Plant (WCP).