Hispanic Laborers - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #16 03-26-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yal

A LEGAL immigrant to a country should meet a certain criteria. Make the criteria anything you want, heck even change it every 6 months like the Aussies do, BUT once that criteria is met it should be as smooth and easy as a hop skip and a jump to becoming a citizen, and it shouldn't cost the individual the price of a mid level luxury sedan to go through the process.
Unfortunately in America the naturalization process is just another money making arm of the Government. It also employs a lot of people. The whole process could be streamlined and made very efficient, heck other countries do it for significantly less cost to the individual or free, but they are not going to do it and this in turn causes the ranks of the illegals to swell.
Who in their right mind would want to go through this process? You spend money that would be more useful if you sent it back home, and if the process fails you end up in a deportation center thats basically a jail with people who have committed real crimes. Is it a wonder then that people just "disappear" once they get here?
Illegal immigrants don't feel like they are being unfair because they feel the system is not fair. We let Cubans (and Irish) stay no questions asked, even some with criminal records, WTF because of Castro and lobbyist? But get a Haitian from a few islands over and he gets sent back all expenses paid, so what does the next Haitian or Mexican do when he gets here...disappears. And we're shocked?

Yep, we should bend over backwards to attract the best and brightest from around the world. If I were in charge I would offer the top 5% of students from any university around the world a no strings attached 1 year work visa. Then I would offer tax advantages to our companies to hire them. Just come down to the embassy, fill out some paperwork, pay a small fee and your in for a year. Then after that I would make it very easy for the top 10%-20% of the people who came to stay.

Sure it would make our kids have to work a lot harder, but they already need to. A lot of people want to come to this country, so we should exploit that to get the best brains in the world to live here. Would you rather have a billent scientest or engineer working for NASA or China/India?

aklim · #17 03-26-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yal

I've been through the naturalization process and it is hell compared to the process in other countries. I heard the INS just raised fees again. They don't raise fees like the post office does with stamps, NO, they raise them by a significant percentage. An application goes from costing $200 to costing $800. A lot of these poor immigrants couldn't afford it at $200. It can cost up to 10 to 20 grand for lawyer fees and thats just to help with the application process. Its a lot easier to be illegal believe me, I know.

I hear you. It is a lot easier for me to rob a bank than to earn money. Planning for a bit and a few hours of action and sit back and relax for a long while. Say, there is a hottie that just walked by. If I wine and dine her enough, I might get into her pants. However, I run the risk of being rejected or just spending money and getting nothing in return. Maybe it is easier to rape her and get what I want.

WVOtoGO · #18 03-26-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Benz

...and THAT, my fellow forum members is the story. Case closed, no need for anyone else to interject or take any nasty stabs at anyone.

Good bead on the issue Jim...

Nice try....

DJ

yal · #19 03-26-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I hear you. It is a lot easier for me to rob a bank than to earn money. Planning for a bit and a few hours of action and sit back and relax for a long while. Say, there is a hottie that just walked by. If I wine and dine her enough, I might get into her pants. However, I run the risk of being rejected or just spending money and getting nothing in return. Maybe it is easier to rape her and get what I want.

Being illegal is like robbing a bank and rape?? WTF lol

oooook if you say so. Wow. Me thinks its a lot easier than that.

aklim · #20 03-26-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yal

Being illegal is like robbing a bank and rape?? WTF lol

oooook if you say so. Wow. Me thinks its a lot easier than that.

I guess you don't grasp the principle. Saying it is hard to become a citizen so I do it illegally is akin to saying it is too difficult to court the girl and get her to give willingly so I take the easier path and just take what I wanted.

MTI · #21 03-26-2008, 04:02 PM

I wonder what would happen if you the penalty for knowingly hiring an undocumented or illegal worker was the loss of citizenship rights, like Social Security, public education, or voting.

aklim · #22 03-26-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I wonder what would happen if you the penalty for knowingly hiring an undocumented or illegal worker was the loss of citizenship rights, like Social Security, public education, or voting.

Nobody would hire illegals. You say it as though it were a bad thing.

MTI · #23 03-26-2008, 04:10 PM

Then the question would be . . . who is going to mow the grass and buss your table?

aklim · #24 03-26-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Then the question would be . . . who is going to mow the grass and buss your table?

Same people who did it before. Yes, you will pay more that way but you won't have to pay more to support the illegals. I can choose to pay more for my meal and have someone mow my grass or stay and home and mow my own grass. I cannot choose how much it raises my cost because some parasites are there and how much it will cost in future because of them and the other parasites it attracts.

MTI · #25 03-26-2008, 04:47 PM

"The same people that did it before . . ." thats a rather vague concept.

History seems to indicate that service and "entry level" jobs were the domain of immigrant groups who took those jobs to support themselves and their families, provide educational opportunities to their children to move up the economic ladder. Surely you're not saying that the sons and daughters of legal immigration should continue working in the service sector forever.

If we only give visas, such as the HB1, to the best & brightest, what imigrant group is going to wash the dishes, pick the produce, or watch the kids?

aklim · #26 03-26-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

"The same people that did it before . . ." thats a rather vague concept.

Surely you're not saying that the sons and daughters of legal immigration should continue working in the service sector forever.

If we only give visas, such as the HB1, to the best & brightest, what imigrant group is going to wash the dishes, pick the produce, or watch the kids?

How did we do it before they came?

No I am not.

I am not against legal immigration. It is the illegal ones that are a problem. They clog up the hospitals, schools and other social systems.

MTI · #27 03-26-2008, 05:27 PM

Would it make any difference in your opinion about the drain caused by illegal, particularly Hispanic, workers . . . if it turned out that the vast majority of them pay taxes, including social security?

It's American History 101 . . . every period seems to have some racial/ethnic group singled out as the source of the nation's ills and woes. Very easy to do, very convenient, very American.

aklim · #28 03-26-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Would it make any difference in your opinion about the drain caused by illegal, particularly Hispanic, workers . . . if it turned out that the vast majority of them pay taxes, including social security?

It's American History 101 . . . every period seems to have some racial/ethnic group singled out as the source of the nation's ills and woes. Very easy to do, very convenient, very American.

Probably not. Why should some people have to go by legal means and others are allowed to skip it all because it is inconvenient?

How is it racial?

BENZ-LGB · #29 03-26-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I guess you don't grasp the principle. Saying it is hard to become a citizen so I do it illegally is akin to saying it is too difficult to court the girl and get her to give willingly so I take the easier path and just take what I wanted.

Bad analogy. I have tried a large number of sexual assault (rape) cases. Rarely, if ever, is the assault about sex. There is "sex" involved but only as a by-product of the actual rape.

Most rapists engage in acts that are meant solely to humiliate and hurt the victim. For most rapists, it is a power trip. It has nothing to do with intercourse as most people know it.

This holds true for ethnic rape (like when conquering soldiers rape the women of the vanquished in an effort to obliterated the DNA of the losing side) or same-sex rape (as it often occurs in prisons).

It has nothing to do with intercourse, it has everything to do with aggression.

Surprisingly enough, a large number of rapists cannot even achieve an erection and/or orgasm.

To compare illegal immigration to bank robbbery and/or rape is not a very good analogy.

Perhaps illegal immigration is more closely related to crimes of opportunity, like shop lifting or joy riding. Our borders are so porous that it is easy to cross the border illegally.

BENZ-LGB · #30 03-26-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

I wonder what would happen if you the penalty for knowingly hiring an undocumented or illegal worker was the loss of citizenship rights, like Social Security, public education, or voting.

You could not do that, except perhaps for voting.

On the other hand I agree with you that people who employ illegal aliens get away far too easily.

I know many well-to-do attorneys and doctors who are always whining and *****ing about illegal immigrants. Yet they hire Manuela, the illegal Guatemalan, to raise their children (because the mom is too busy at the club playing cards, gossiping and gettig her nails done to bother about her own children). Or they hire Ramon, the illegal Nicaraguan, to cut their trees and mow their lawn.

You can bet that neither Manuela nor Ramon are paid minimum wages, have WC coverage in case they get injured, or employer-provided medical insurance for when their kids get sick.

If we are going to address the many problems created by illegal immigration (and as a prosecutor I see many) then it is time to stop the hypocrisy and put ALL issues on the table for debate.