So.....

This was a Presbyterian church in the Sierra foothills of Nor Cal, with an extremely conservative, utterly 100% all white congregation.

Many of my neighbors go to it and are members, and I like them. I had been there several times, and actually contemplated joining by way of letter of transfer.

(I had attended a somewhat liberal Presbyterian church in San Francisco for 25 years prior to this, as a straight male person.)

So, at the end of the service, we were treated to a "presentation".

An earnest family of four teens, and their mother and father, appeared on the dais (?) and gave an appeal for funds to send them ($3,000 more was still needed to make the nut) to send them to Morocco in North Africa for missionary work to convert Muslim ("Heathens" - my word, not theirs) to Christianity.

They showed a film clip of a large number of North African muslims bowing down, for prayer, and actually said:

"Wouldn't it be wonderful if they were bowing down like that to Jesus? We want to go there and get them to do that"

They said they would be going to Morocco to live with a host family for one month there and convert these people.

They were inspired by some Evangelical group called JEM

http://jem-france.com/uk/dts.htm

^^^^I had never heard of this organization that "inspired" them.

When the service ended, you go have to go through the line and shake hands with the minister when you exit the church.

He was taken aback visibly, when I told him after I shook his hand, that
those people had found themselves an excellent way to get themselves killed. Not to mention their hosts too.

Then he recovered his composure, and smiled at me and said, "God will take care of them."

Then later I saw a woman who is a neighbor in the parking lot and is a member of the church and I told her what happened.

She told me this family is known to be more than a bit "Whack" and out there, but the church is doling out money to them to pursue this, and other Quixotic dreams they had. She said there is no way they could afford it themselves, and hit up the church before for cash to go to Honduras for this kind of thing.

She went on to tell me, that all this is going on while the church, which looked pretty prosperous to me, is over $23,000 in the hole in its budget and getting worse.

Also, it is split on the issue, sharply, but the majority of them, she said, hates gays and voted to exclude them from Ministry.

For a moment the world swerved and I thought I was someplace like Loose Gravel, Arkansas.

Then I was back and realized this is an average ordinary white middle class small town in Northern California.

But I had entertained SERIOUS thoughts about making a church home out of this place, this community of believers. I had even lined up someone to sponsor my possible bid for membership.

And now THIS!!!

Well, I'll be damned!!! (So to speak!!)

Maybe I had better go church shopping some more. If at all.

And while I wonder what Matt300SD thinks, his advice will be taken along with any other, and not given any more or less weight than anyone else's.


What a place. UFB. How appearances deceive.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

LOL!!!!!!!!!! How bout them pagan devil worshipping living in darkness Hindus? You sure do need to shop around for a church with a more neutral crowd.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

Yah, I am getting kind of a reputation as a sort of "Bomb-thrower" in this complacent all white town.

Perhaps the pitchfork-and-torch brigade will be after me one of these nights.

Hell, both my cars come from countries that we kicked the $hit out of in World War II, don't they?

That might be enough,right there.....

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

You better look for a different neighborhood, maybe Staten Island

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

I thought you were at home on level ground, Jim ... As far as I see it, Americans are still under shock from their WWII experience... while in Europe life and business goes on as usual.
Kicked the ***** out of ... giggle, giggle ... if anyone did serious fighting over there, it was the Red Army, besides the Germans ...

If you like, I am happy to repost the stats ...

But alltogether, you are no match to the self proclaimed British Victorians and the Churchill fellowship ....

__________________

Bible = Food.

(South Park reference)

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Current cars:
2000 ML55 AMG, 174k miles
2003 C240 T-Modell, 202k miles
1995 S320, 207k Miles

Jim,
Sort of related..
I have very mixed feelings about some/most many short term missions trips. While I agree that getting more "average" people involved in missions can be a good thing, I also see problems. Among them are the high cost--For a "regular" missionary who goes to a foreign country, their travel expenses are minmal--when considered over a 7 year term. For Short termers, the travel becomes a major % of the cost.
I also wonder if they provide any REAL help to the on-going work. Do they know the langauge, and customs of the people, or are they merely tourists?
Finally, I find that many short term trips end up in rather glamorous places--Is the missionary work or a vacation?

As for their quote which offended you---what did you expect? Christianity is an "exclusive" religion; One of Jesus' quotes comes across more strongly in the original than in our english, but it would be something like this, " I, myself, and the only Way, the only Truth, and the only Life; NO ONE gets to the Father except thru me".
If you accept that as a true statement, you must convert the world, or they perrish.

If you reject that statement, you would be offended by such missionary work.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

LOL!!!! You went to church... Thats some funny stuff.

Seriously, there are still people who do that?

It's important to know who to hate. If your church doesn't tell you that, who WILL?

That family reminded me of the Barbara Kingsolver book, The Poisonwood Bible. Anybody else read that?

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Yup, reminds me of a story.....

A long time ago, when I was in college, an old cracker refused to sell me any gas for my '70 VW bug. In effect his words were "I don't sell gas to people who drive a Nazi-mobile". My girlfriend was in his restroom at the time, and came out just as he spit a wad of Beech-Nut chewing tobacco my way. The look on her face is one I will never forget, later, she kept asking me: "Don't these people know WWII ended 40 years ago???"

The nearest gas station was 20 miles away, and we made it on fumes.

Last time I walked into a church I felt a burning sensation all over me..

Why Brother Jim?Do you feel a spiritual void?Is your path to happiness and inner peace strewn with calthrops of the mind?

Dare I venture the need to belong combined with the insecurity of a skeptic loner is knawing at your vitals?

Just hie thee to the nearest bar,get a drink and chat some people up.......

Like You,I'm also equipped with a built-in Hypocrisy Detector.

Don't look for a perfect church, preacher,community or life. These things just don't exist.Hypocracy and corruption is everywhere.

If you don't know where to go or what to do pray about it and wait 3 days. The answer will come.

No good deed goes unpunished and many are on skid row for doing the right thing.The trouble is weeding out Those who put themselves in that position and those
who didn't. People in need generally don't ask for a hand out either.

Im sure you will find a place.
Shark

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1984 W123 300CDT

That's just the gout - read up on MTU's and Carleton's other thread.

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1981 240d - 135k - Arlene

I believe I am correct in thinking that the Christian Reconstruction movement (turn the US into a Christian Theocracy) has deep roots in California Presbyterianism. If I'm not mistaken, Rousas K Rushdoony the founding father of the movement was a Presbyterian minister in California and I think they have a seminary in California also. In addition, Phillip Johnson, the Stanford Law Professor who is the heavyweight behind the Intelligent Design movement in the US was converted to a very conservative version of Christianity at a California Presbyterian church. An old acquaintance of mine from Bible College heads up the anti-gay movement within Presbyterianism and it's a strong wing of that church.

I thought your missionaries were pretty moderate. YWAM sends tens of thousands of high school students around the world every year to convert the heathen. So it could have been a high school sophomore pleading for you to pay her expenses to China so she could spend two weeks converting the heathen over her spring break. I'm still doing penance for such a missionary trip to Scotland in 1973.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13