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  #16  
Old 12-26-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
We have never had an empire....
Whether that is true might depend on how one defines "empire." Here's Merriam-Webster's definition:
Quote:
a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit
b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control.

Empire - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
It seems to me that we have had a financial empire. Haven't we had "domination or control" over "extensive territory"?

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  #17  
Old 12-26-2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Whether that is true might depend on how one defines "empire." Here's Merriam-Webster's definition:It seems to me that we have had a financial empire. Haven't we had "domination or control" over "extensive territory"?
We've been custodians of a large amount of territory, but the citizens of those territories, to a large extent, controlled their own g'ment.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
We've been custodians of a large amount of territory, but the citizens of those territories, to a large extent, controlled their own g'ment.
I sort of see it as the other way around. The citizens of those countries are the custodians of the land where they live, but our money, to a certain extent, has controlled their governments. I'm not saying that makes us bad people and I can't really cite any clear examples. It's just that we have the most money and that's what it's all about.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus View Post
I sort of see it as the other way around. The citizens of those countries are the custodians of the land where they live, but our money, to a certain extent, has controlled their governments. I'm not saying that makes us bad people and I can't really cite any clear examples. It's just that we have the most money and that's what it's all about.
Which countries are you considering. Japan, Germany, The Phillipines?
Texas?
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2011, 04:54 PM
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Haven't really seen much on the subject from the news outlets but another forum I frequent has an Iranian member. He's been "reporting" realtime though the forums about how Iran's currency is collapsing and their citizens are buying up all of the country's gold. He's posted pictures of people lined up for blocks outside of banks to purchase gold. Seeing that, I don't think the Rial is going to be a currency that will survive to be a threat in the petro markets. On the other hand there is still the ruble, euro, yen and yuan.
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2011, 08:19 PM
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Something like this was tried about 40 years ago by the Saudis. It fell apart in just a few years since it never really did take off.

And trading in Rubles? That has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. When you are trading in currency it is wise to trade in one that is worth something and stable. There has never been a time in all of history when the ruble was either. It would make more sense to trade in Gold.

And the Euro? Or the Monopoly money that Iran uses? I just don't see that taking place.

And ENRON was profitable? ENRON was a giant fraud that made money through manipulation of energy supply. They had some markets locked up and people had to buy energy from them; there is no such lock on the oil market.

If Iran wants to control oil prices they need to start with convincing the member of OPEC to stop cheating on their production. If you have the money someone will sell you the oil.
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
Something like this was tried about 40 years ago by the Saudis. It fell apart in just a few years since it never really did take off.

And trading in Rubles? That has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. When you are trading in currency it is wise to trade in one that is worth something and stable. There has never been a time in all of history when the ruble was either. It would make more sense to trade in Gold.

And the Euro? Or the Monopoly money that Iran uses? I just don't see that taking place.

And ENRON was profitable? ENRON was a giant fraud that made money through manipulation of energy supply. They had some markets locked up and people had to buy energy from them; there is no such lock on the oil market.

If Iran wants to control oil prices they need to start with convincing the member of OPEC to stop cheating on their production. If you have the money someone will sell you the oil.
Can you provide credentials to support your competency on the subject?
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:22 PM
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I spent the last 40 years in the oil business and have traded oil off and on for much of that time. I didn't see anything new in this big announcement. It has all been tried before and flopped. I don't see why this time would be any different. Just because someone wants something to happen is not enough for anyone I know to do business with them.

A lot of oil trading is done on exchanges, but I used to do multi-million dollar deals on a handshake. It all depends on trust. Some people have it and some don't. I also had a rep as steering you to a port that was ready to receive so you didn't run into a question over Demurrage.

If you wish to get involved in a deal like this then please knock yourself out. I would only deal with people I knew could deliver since I was always a buyer. And they only dealt with me because they knew I could pay with-in ten days of gauging off. I was known as a stickler on the Ullage, so if you were planning on burning a part of your cargo for fuel then I was not going to be a good customer.

It is nice to see someone try something new, but if they are going to peg it to a currency that might be worth nothing tomorrow they will have an uphill battle. A lot of folks pegged their deals on the Euro, got killed, and are back to dealing in nothing but Dollars. The Czech Crown is a more stable currency then the Euro right now, but you don't see a lot of deals being done in Crowns.

For all the scare talk about the Dollar becoming worthless I still don't see anyone turning them down.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:30 PM
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And if you question is about OPEC members cheating.....

This has been going on since the day OPEC went into business. There are always guys you can call that can find the oil you need. A little time goes by and suddenly they are on the phone to you with a million bbls. The only thing they want to know is where to drop it off.

As long as no one gets totally out of hand everyone looks the other way. When the oil hits our shores US Customs wants their cut, and when it clears them it is on the way to your refinery!

And a good book on ENRON is 'The Smartest Guys in the Room'. It lays it all out in detail how they were posting profits when there really were none.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
Can you provide credentials to support your competency on the subject?
You posted an article written by others and now you demand a respondent provide credentials?
Well you got your response. How 'bout you provide your credentials?
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  #26  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
I spent the last 40 years in the oil business and have traded oil off and on for much of that time. I didn't see anything new in this big announcement. It has all been tried before and flopped. I don't see why this time would be any different. Just because someone wants something to happen is not enough for anyone I know to do business with them.

A lot of oil trading is done on exchanges, but I used to do multi-million dollar deals on a handshake. It all depends on trust. Some people have it and some don't. I also had a rep as steering you to a port that was ready to receive so you didn't run into a question over Demurrage.

If you wish to get involved in a deal like this then please knock yourself out. I would only deal with people I knew could deliver since I was always a buyer. And they only dealt with me because they knew I could pay with-in ten days of gauging off. I was known as a stickler on the Ullage, so if you were planning on burning a part of your cargo for fuel then I was not going to be a good customer.

It is nice to see someone try something new, but if they are going to peg it to a currency that might be worth nothing tomorrow they will have an uphill battle. A lot of folks pegged their deals on the Euro, got killed, and are back to dealing in nothing but Dollars. The Czech Crown is a more stable currency then the Euro right now, but you don't see a lot of deals being done in Crowns.

For all the scare talk about the Dollar becoming worthless I still don't see anyone turning them down.
Reads very generic to me. Your opinion seems to be very biased.
People see what they want to see. Narroweyed views are common. Presumption of superiority runs wild in this eclectic society.

Things have always changed in this world and they will continue to change.
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
You posted an article written by others and now you demand a respondent provide credentials?
Well you got your response. How 'bout you provide your credentials?
I didn't post an opinion about the article. The original post dates almost 4 years back.

I didn't demand anything. You are exaggerating.
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  #28  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
I didn't post an opinion about the article. The original post dates almost 4 years back.

I didn't demand anything. You are exaggerating.
Of course you posted no opinion, because you haven't the knowledge to do so.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Of course you posted no opinion, because you haven't the knowledge to do so.
Correction: I did post an opinion on 05/12/2008 post #7.

Regarding your comment: I think this would be the smartest thing to do.

On the flipside, it seems you just rearended yourself, Chas.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2011, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
Correction: I did post an opinion on 05/12/2008 post #7.

Regarding your comment: I think this would be the smartest thing to do.

On the flipside, it seems you just rearended yourself, Chas.
Nope, first you say you have no opinion, then you tell us you do.
Anyone as confused as you shouldn't be commenting about the posts from others.
If you had anything of value to offer you wouldn't need a silly cartoon to re-inforce your post.

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