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  #1  
Old 05-15-2008, 01:13 PM
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Battle Royal

I wrote this as the other thread (thread we will not speak of) was being locked.

Hopefully this thread can keep on topic and avoid the personal attacks that sometimes follow.

The other thread is empirical evidence of ongoing racial tensions in this country.

The more occasions we have to discuss things like this t-shirt, the quicker we move towards a genuine conversation about race. It's been far too long in coming.

But to solve any of this, our society has to get uncomfortable again. We need to dig up and look at the history of race and at the many ways racial tensions are perpetuated. We need to acknowledge our own role in the matter. We need to commit to making our future role different.

People of all colors/creeds can be (and are) racist against every other possibility. This can be overtly, subtly, or inadvertently. This can flow from belief system, intention, laziness or ignorance. But it should be challenged wherever it is. And we should all care to get it right.

In the American South, ignorance is no excuse. The guy selling the t-shirts, a bar owner in Marietta (northern suburb of Atlanta), could not possibly have been unaware of the historical use of chimps, apes, monkeys, etc. as a way to denigrate black Americans. His defense is transparent and loathsome, but unfortunately not uncommon. It bespeaks the urgent need to prevent attitudes such as his from flourishing - but the solution isn't a protest. The solution is a conversation.

Regrettably, it's a conversation most Americans will choose never to have.

Take a few minutes and read Ralph Ellison's "Battle Royal." It should be instructive and cautionary. Some, unfortunately, will probably laugh. But it's worth talking about.

http://www.wicknet.org/english/bfreeman/Anthology/battle_royal.htm

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  #2  
Old 05-15-2008, 01:15 PM
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:38 PM
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:45 PM
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Holy Crap- we had a thread locked while I was working damnit!
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2008, 01:55 PM
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I champion free speach and always will.

If you don't value your freedoms, you will lose them.

If you like censorship, move to China.
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idolotor View Post

If you like censorship, move to China.
Funk that--earthquakes and a weak dolla. Just whine to a mod and save the airfare.
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2008, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
Funk that--earthquakes and a weak dolla. Just whine to a mod and save the airfare.
I'm telling on you... you offender!
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:00 PM
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I don't believe we can ever solve it by just talking. Talking is cheap. There is only one way to solve it once and for all. DIY. You cannot just tell me I have to get over my discrimination of a group. That group has got to stand up and prove that my discrimination is baseless. So, if I want to stop being called something bad, I need to MAKE YOU shut up by making you look foolish every time you call me that bad name. You hushing me up or not letting me say it is not going to help. You making me give you a handicap isn't going to help either. In fact, quite the reverse. It gives me ammunition in the fight.

Look at the Japs. After WWII, Americans and other Asian countries hated them for what they have done. Their products were inferior. What did they do? They didn't pout and scream about it. Fast Forward to today. Toyota is publicly aiming to surpass Ford, IIRC.

As a minority, I can think of nothing worse than Affirmative Action when it comes to discrimination. What are you telling me? That I cannot compete in a fair race which explains the handicap? Lets look on the other side. If some guy tells me that I got where I did by AA, what can I say but acknowledge that I am inferior? If I were given the choice of a white or minority doctor, why would I choose the white guy? Because I know he wasn't helped by AA. Can I be as certain of the minority doctor? As a white man, don't you think I will feel resentful that Joe Minority got the goal because he was a minority? Think that all you tell me about the history, etc, etc, will ever help? My father didn't own slaves and neither did I.

Yes, all this conversation and all that is well intentioned. However we know what the road to hell is paved with, don't we? Don't tell me that without AA, this, that or the other will happen or not happen. That is ancient history. Lets deal with today. You cannot end discrimination by another form of discrimination. You end it by making me have to have you. Look at the NFL. Black people have proven to be better and the teams are reflecting that.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djugurba View Post
It bespeaks the urgent need to prevent attitudes such as his from flourishing - but the solution isn't a protest. The solution is a conversation.
So the guy's an ass, who cares? Lot's of assho*es everywhere. Ignore them, pay no attention and move on. It's not against the law to be an ass, speak your mind, or be an idiot. The more attention you draw to them the more you empower them.

As far as race is concerned, you can't change human nature. The only thing that counts is what you think of yourself. Everything else is BS.

I think this country has done a great job in dealing with race. Compared to many/most parts of the world we're doing a pretty fair job. It'll never be perfect, but we're getting better.
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Last edited by 450slcguy; 05-15-2008 at 07:04 PM.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Idolotor View Post
I champion free speach and always will.

If you don't value your freedoms, you will lose them.

If you like censorship, move to China.
Or vote for McCain, who finds political speech near elections a terrible inconvenience.

B
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2008, 06:42 PM
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What knockers!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
Funk that--earthquakes and a weak dolla. Just whine to a mod and save the airfare.
My name is Bot and I am offended.

Boo-hoo!!!

B
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2008, 08:34 PM
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Just don't get people like Sharpton involved. Remember the Rutgers basketball team vs Don Imus? I think Sharpton turned those girls into pathetic victims when they should have been holding their heads high as outstanding athletes. There will always be some racism, but the time for hapless victimhood is over. If Obama gets upset about this, then it's over for him too.

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