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  #1  
Old 07-19-2008, 11:18 AM
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Early sighting of an ME262, by a B17 formation.

Some interesting footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-8CQp2_BLc&feature=related

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  #2  
Old 07-19-2008, 04:58 PM
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I'm glad Hitler didn't have more time. Development of the V1 and V2 plus the ME-262 could have had us all speaking German today... but, we had the A-bomb. OTOH we probably wouldn't have tthe kind of terrorism we have today.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:18 PM
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He HAD the time, but he wasted it by requiring a fighter-BOMBER version of the 262.
Guess he was only a military genius in his own mind.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:41 PM
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He had everyone by their balls until he invaded the Soviet Union. Hitler won, than lost WW2 for Germany.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:42 PM
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Everybody who uses methamphetamines thinks they are a genius.
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:48 PM
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Well he was a political genius, he just sucked at military decisions. If he did what Stalin did and let the general staff run the war, he wouldn't have spent his last birthday in a bombed out bunker.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:10 PM
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This is something I've always wondered about. I'd seen ME262s in dogfights with P-52s and B-17s in art, but I didn't know whether the artist had taken creative license or if it had actually happened.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:43 AM
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Oh it happend all right. Most ME262's were shot down when they were trying to land. The P51 could out turn them, and kinda keep up in a dive, but they were just downright faster.

They would have had the ME262 in numbers in 1943 if it wasn't for Hitler, they first say combat in 1944.

Hitler was also the reason they lacked the A bomb. If proper effort was put into it, well it would have been a close race with us.

The Germans were pretty advanced in aircraft design, heck our space program was started and run by German engineers and scientists. The Germans had some of the best if not the best military equipment right up until the end of the war. Just not in the numbers needed. There equipment was first rate by anyones measure at the time. IMHO Part of the reason WW2 is still talked about the way it is, is that fact that the enemy was such a formidable one. Really we havn't had a war against such an ememy since than; that could stand toe to toe with us and sometimes best us on the field. The Germans and Japanese were able to match and check some of our best efforts and formations.

All the wars faught since have been against less technicaly able foes.
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Last edited by Hatterasguy; 07-20-2008 at 12:51 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2008, 09:28 AM
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Best line in "The Right Stuff":

"Our Germans are smarter than their Germans".
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Best line in "The Right Stuff":

"Our Germans are smarter than their Germans".
Well why the hell can't ours design a car like theirs can?
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Old 07-20-2008, 10:26 PM
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first fighter jets in combat

The biggest problem for the ME 262 was actually lack of jet fuel for them.

By April 1945 many of them were simply grounded. Lots of them were simply shot up on the airfields, which were no longer secure. They entire country was being overrun, and the end was near.

They tried to conceal some of them, in forests off the highways near Munich, but it was simply too late by then, the war was basically over.

At the very end a couple of pilots gassed them up and flew them to Switzerland.

Couldn't turn well as Hattie said, but and they needed long runways, but they were really fast jets. The very first ones in operational combat

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Last edited by Jim B.; 07-20-2008 at 10:33 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2008, 11:34 PM
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They could turn well enough. Most were shot down while they were trying to land, or on the ground.


The old jet engines couldn't spool up right away, so you had to add power, build speed. If someone started shooting at you, you couldn't just fire wall the throttle.
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuan View Post
Well why the hell can't ours design a car like theirs can?
Our engineers could design just as well as anybody elses. Its managment who decides what engineers will be allowed to build.

Thats why GM is in trouble. The bean counters have been in control for way too long.

At benz (at least in the old days) the top guys were actually engineers too.

That and the unlimited speed on the Autobahns created the legendary benz durability and quality of engineering.

Tom W
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2008, 07:35 AM
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The ME-262 was way ahead of its time. I think it wasn't till the Mig-15 and the F-87 Sabre that its performance was eclipsed. The Mig-15 and F-87 look very simular. There is a Focke-Wulf proto type that looks close to each of them.
The Brits did have the Gloster Meteor. I don't know how it compares performance wise to the Me-262. The Me-262 had axial flow engines, while the Meteor had radial flow. The axial flows of that time only lasted about 25 to 50 hours of flight time. The radial flows of the Meteor were still flying into the 70's and 80's, maybe even presently without a rebuild.
Frank Whittle was the british designer of their jet engines. Actually, the russians were sold the british jet engine design. He did have a design to attemp mach speed. It was grounded due to political influences. His tail design actually was 'borrowed' for the Bell X-1.
Tom

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