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  #31  
Old 07-22-2008, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Keep in mind also that Ahmadinejad is only the President (which isn't the highest position in Iran) and he might not even be in office next year. The final word on any matter lies with the Ayatollah.
And you think that if Ahmadinejad values his job he won't be their mouthpiece?

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  #32  
Old 07-22-2008, 03:24 PM
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In your view. However, you are not the one sitting in Tel Aviv. If so, you might not feel so comfortable with them developing nukes, will you?
Here's another thought. Put yourself in Iran's shoes. Israel is the only one in the region that actually has nuclear weapons and they keep threatening Iran. Living in Iran, would you feel comfortable being in range of Israel's nukes?

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How did they steal the land from the arabs?
How would you feel if the Mexicans who have immigrated to the US declared independence on US territory, and started evicting Americans from their land? That's what happened to the Arabs.

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Originally Posted by aklim
And you think that if Ahmadinejad values his job he won't be their mouthpiece?
To some extent yes, but not completely. Iran is a partial democracy after all, certainly more democratic than our friends in Saudi Arabia or Egypt.
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  #33  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Here's another thought. Put yourself in Iran's shoes. Israel is the only one in the region that actually has nuclear weapons and they keep threatening Iran. Living in Iran, would you feel comfortable being in range of Israel's nukes?

How would you feel if the Mexicans who have immigrated to the US declared independence on US territory, and started evicting Americans from their land? That's what happened to the Arabs.
Probably not but I wouldn't go shooting my mouth off about wiping them off the earth. What have they done that is threatening of Israel? Besides running exercises to blow up their reactor that they feel is going to make something nasty for them?

So Yom Kippor and the 7 day war don't have anything to do with what happened? IIRC, the arabs declared war the day after Israel declared independence.
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  #34  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:49 PM
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Probably not but I wouldn't go shooting my mouth off about wiping them off the earth. What have they done that is threatening of Israel? Besides running exercises to blow up their reactor that they feel is going to make something nasty for them?

So Yom Kippor and the 7 day war don't have anything to do with what happened? IIRC, the arabs declared war the day after Israel declared independence.
Israel keeps openly threatening Iran with war. I'd call that a threat.

The 6 day war (not 7) was just a natural consequence of Israel's declaration of independence, just like all other other local conflicts that have occurred since then.
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  #35  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
Israel keeps openly threatening Iran with war. I'd call that a threat.

The 6 day war (not 7) was just a natural consequence of Israel's declaration of independence, just like all other other local conflicts that have occurred since then.
Like how? Besides the threats of strikes on the suspected nuke facilities. They have also said that while they were preparing for a strike, they did favor diplomatic resolutions.

Fast fingers. Well, if you want to look at it that way, can't we also say that the ejection of arabs are also natural consequences?
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  #36  
Old 07-22-2008, 06:25 PM
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You seem to think a strike on nuclear plants is no big deal. Just consider the potential nuclear fallout. Remember Iran has the legal right to have civilian nuclear energy according to the non-proliferation treaty. AFAIK, Iran hasn't done anything major to violate the treaty.

You could also say it's Hitler's fault that Israel was even established. But by the same token, I guess you could say the US should be thankful to Hitler for helping to establish an ally in the ME for us.

Anyway, we're getting way off topic here.
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  #37  
Old 07-22-2008, 06:28 PM
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uh with guns? maybe?
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  #38  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
You seem to think a strike on nuclear plants is no big deal. Just consider the potential nuclear fallout. Remember Iran has the legal right to have civilian nuclear energy according to the non-proliferation treaty. AFAIK, Iran hasn't done anything major to violate the treaty.
If you were Israel, would you wait till they actually made a nuclear strike or would you gather intelligence and if you feel a threat is real, take action? Remember, this is part of the group that wants them off the earth.
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  #39  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:58 PM
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What is your view on this kind of justice?

What does this say about values in Iran compared to the west?
It is what they feel is justice. Who are we to say otherwise? Their citizens know the laws and violated them so.......

That they have a different but equally valid system of values? Why must they have the same values? The Europeans have their own value system where they refuse to extradite people on their soil if there is the possibility of them facing the death penalty. Who are they to say how others punish the offenders?
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  #40  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:59 PM
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If you were Israel, would you wait till they actually made a nuclear strike or would you gather intelligence and if you feel a threat is real, take action? Remember, this is part of the group that wants them off the earth.
uh considering israel has at least 100 nuclear weapons, does not follow any tenets of nuclear treaties, and is known for its imperialism, wouldn't u want to have something to keep them honest?
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  #41  
Old 07-22-2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselAddict View Post
You seem to think a strike on nuclear plants is no big deal. Just consider the potential nuclear fallout. Remember Iran has the legal right to have civilian nuclear energy according to the non-proliferation treaty. AFAIK, Iran hasn't done anything major to violate the treaty.

You could also say it's Hitler's fault that Israel was even established. But by the same token, I guess you could say the US should be thankful to Hitler for helping to establish an ally in the ME for us.

Anyway, we're getting way off topic here.
wow your hatred of Jews is disturbing...............
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  #42  
Old 07-22-2008, 10:22 PM
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wow your hatred of Jews is disturbing...............
as usual, criticism of israel i.e. anti-zionism is not answered; instead, the critic is accused of hating jews i.e. anti=semitism - which is, as they say, a horse of a different color. please try to stick to the topic, which was uh israel's secret nuclear weapons, its genocide against palestinians, and its history of imperialism (talking about israel does not have anything to do with hating jews)
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  #43  
Old 07-22-2008, 10:29 PM
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It is what they feel is justice. Who are we to say otherwise? Their citizens know the laws and violated them so.......

That they have a different but equally valid system of values? Why must they have the same values?
Anyone who doesn't have the same values as us is evil and needs to be destroyed.
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  #44  
Old 07-22-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
uh considering israel has at least 100 nuclear weapons,

does not follow any tenets of nuclear treaties,

and is known for its imperialism,

wouldn't u want to have something to keep them honest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Israel is widely believed to possess a substantial arsenal (an estimated 100 to 200) of nuclear weapons,[1] and maintains intercontinental-range ballistic missiles to deliver them. Officially Israel neither confirms nor denies possessing nuclear weapons. The US Congress Office of Technology Assessment has recorded Israel as a country generally reported as having undeclared chemical warfare capabilities, and an offensive biological warfare program.[2]

Although Israel is widely suspected of having weapons of mass destruction, it took part in a regional conference with the Union for the Mediterranean - including majority-Arab states - on 2008-07-13 to remove all WMDs from the Middle East.[3]


What imperialism are you referring to?

I don't see a reason they would aim it at us or our interests at this time. Can the same be said for Iran?
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  #45  
Old 07-22-2008, 11:52 PM
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Anyone who doesn't have the same values as us is evil and needs to be destroyed.
If all relationships are equal, how does one know when something is good or when something is evil?

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