Toyota posts a loss! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #1 12-25-2008, 07:59 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28344700/page/2/

First one in 70 years though.

I love how Toyota is talking about becoming lean and efficient, while concentrating on cars that people want in tough economic times, ie cheap ones. They also have enough cash where they can easly afford to lose money next year. However they are determined to make money even if there sales tank. GM is just begging for government money to do what they have always done. They use the government funds to extract some money from the UAW workers and the fat cats keep jetting around like its 1950.

Its really surprising how much better of a company Toyota is today compared to GM and Ford. Toyota is a company on the rise, GM is in decline.

The Clk Man · #2 12-25-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28344700/page/2/

First one in 70 years though.

I love how Toyota is talking about becoming lean and efficient, while concentrating on cars that people want in tough economic times, ie cheap ones. They also have enough cash where they can easly afford to lose money next year. However they are determined to make money even if there sales tank. GM is just begging for government money to do what they have always done. They use the government funds to extract some money from the UAW workers and the fat cats keep jetting around like its 1950.

Its really surprising how much better of a company Toyota is today compared to GM and Ford. Toyota is a company on the rise, GM is in decline.

I agree, Toyotas are great cars and I have owned a few. The early ones would rust to the ground but they kept running.

123c · #3 12-25-2008, 08:23 PM

So Toyota will cut back on truck production? My local Toyota dealer has mostly trucks on it, and the rest being Priuses and other Hybrids.
My Local Toyota Dealer has bought out most of the other dealers in town, except for Chevy/Subaru/Jeep/Caddilac, and GMC/Ponitac Dealers.

diametricalbenz · #4 12-25-2008, 11:58 PM

The Cadillac dealer near here has the exact same lot full of cars but have tons of brake rotor rust on them.....

Jim B. · #5 12-26-2008, 12:35 AM

Aren't you just *ALL* broken up about that?

Jim B. · #6 12-26-2008, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

The Cadillac dealer near here has the exact same lot full of cars but have tons of brake rotor rust on them.....

You LOOKED???!!

You're NOT supposed to do *THAT*!!!!

iwrock · #7 12-26-2008, 12:38 AM

Ehh, their all not doing so well.

123c · #8 12-26-2008, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

The Cadillac dealer near here has the exact same lot full of cars but have tons of brake rotor rust on them.....

That is true here as well, and they are selling the Subaru's faster than they can get them in it looks like...

diametricalbenz · #9 12-26-2008, 09:06 AM

Being here in Wisconsin, NPR had a segment on how there were highly mixed feelings on the Janesville, WI plant which turned out the last Black Tahoe LTZ.

I love Subarus and hope that they too can weather the pummeling that all automakers are receiving. They offer the performance and practicality of a car while providing a cutting edge AWD system that even Honda, Toyota and Nissan hasn't or won't build.

POS · #10 12-26-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I love how Toyota is talking about becoming lean and efficient, while concentrating on cars that people want in tough economic times, ie cheap ones. They also have enough cash where they can easly afford to lose money next year. However they are determined to make money even if there sales tank. GM is just begging for government money to do what they have always done. They use the government funds to extract some money from the UAW workers and the fat cats keep jetting around like its 1950.

Toyota is in trouble because they made a horrible mistake - building a $1.3b plant in San Antonio to build Tundras exactly when gas prices hit all time highs, then followed up by the credit market collapse. They have since stopped production for a few months in that facility.

There are two things Toyo has on GM; cheaper labor and perceived reliability. GM builds more fuel efficient vehicles than Toyota, and their quality is the same - Toyota's quality has been dropping while GM's has been rising (Ford's too, btw). What I'm amazed about is how everyone thinks Toyota is this great auto company without fault, and GM/Ford are pieces of crap barely holding on to a thread, when GM/Ford both have a huge global market, both make reliable products that are cheaper than the Toyotas, and both make more fuel-efficient vehicles than Toyota (in terms of model quantity). Ford and GM are fine on a global level, and if they could fix the "price of labor" issue they have with the UAW, both companies would continue to head on the path that they're on - hybrids, electrics, fuel cell, and more efficient gas engines in reliable vehicles.

Yet, "common wisdom" is always, and has always been, that Toyota makes the highest quality, cheapest cars while GM and Ford make monster gas guzzlers that fall apart in one year. At some point, you have to stop and look at the companies/products, drop your preconceptions, and re-evaluate what you know.

Jim B. · #11 12-26-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Being here in Wisconsin, NPR had a segment on how there were highly mixed feelings on the Janesville, WI plant which turned out the last Black Tahoe LTZ.

I love Subarus and hope that they too can weather the pummeling that all automakers are receiving. They offer the performance and practicality of a car while providing a cutting edge AWD system that even Honda, Toyota and Nissan hasn't or won't build.

Well, having recently bought a new one, myself, after having it awhile I have to say I really like it. It's versatile as heck, has tons of room, goes anywhere exactly the same as any ordinary car, is dead reliable, seems to hav really wonderful build quality, and sips regular gas sparingly, and most important of all, goes through heavy snow like it doesn't even exist.

We just our first heavy snow and white Christmas day in memory up here, 3300 feet in the Sierra foothills.

The Mercedes NEVER will be sent out in this weather. That is the Subaru's job.

That off road and snow capability combined with everything else, makes it a great car. They sell like hotcakes up here and around Lake Tahoe. This company stuck to its niche and now has become quite established and mature, and even has posted a modest profit this year.

The Outback window sticker informs me the vehicle is built in Indiana and has ALL american content except for the engine and transmission, which are built in Japan. (Many Buicks have Mexican engines, by the way!!!)

I have been talking to product reps for the company that have told me that the Outback, basically with the same desgin since 1995 will have a totally new design for 2010. And they will be available with the new Boxer Diesel engine too, so the AWD advantage will be even better coupled with the low center of gravity that the boxer engine provides, which makes them less suscetible to body roll, a danger with 4wd vehicles.

As my zero percent loan on the new Outback will be paid by then, I am almost certain I will go in and take a look at the sleek new Outbacks with Diesel engines.

They are selling well already in Europe and widely accepted, Outbacks with Diesel engines. I think Top Gear made them car of the year.

Where the price of fuel hit over $8 a gallon in Denmark this year, economy is critical, and they are a hit. There are many many Diesels in Europe, and they even have summer and winter Diesel blends in Scandanavia, so -30* temperatures in places like Sweden and Finland presents no problem.

I was told by the Subaru product reps that Americans are bombarding the company with requests for the diesel boxer engine Outback.

Mistress · #12 12-26-2008, 09:57 AM

You know it's really bad when Toyota is losing money.

diametricalbenz · #13 12-26-2008, 10:00 AM

Sure the quality levels are shifting but on an absolute scale they're still not as good as the Japanese manufacturers in many categories according to JD Power.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand

Brian Carlton · #14 12-26-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Sure the quality levels are shifting but on an absolute scale they're still not as good as the Japanese manufacturers in many categories according to JD Power.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand

When Ford and Chevy match Acura, Audi, and Honda in overall quality levels, the level of criticism generated toward the American manufacturers is clearly unfounded and based upon past performance and bias.

The current situation that the U.S. auto companies find themselves is strictly the result of overcapacity. When you lose 30% of your business, it's difficult to cover fixed expenses.

Jim B. · #15 12-26-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Sure the quality levels are shifting but on an absolute scale they're still not as good as the Japanese manufacturers in many categories according to JD Power.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand

For that the highly paid UAW people that build them are largely to blame.

At the car show, the Subaru product rep ( a middle aged afro american woman) told me that she began her career working in Detroit back in 1991 as a product rep for Pontiac. When the new '92 Bonneville ssei came out, she was assigned to rep it at the auto show in Detroit, and stand on the turntable wih the car. As this new "show car" went around the turntable, a sharp eyed old lady pointed out to her the brand new Bonneville had cloth inserts on 3 of its doors and leather on the forth one.

Quick on her feet, she said she told her that this was done just to show the difference, but when the old lady wandered away she ran screaming to her boss, and said how could you put a BRAND NEW model you are indtroducing on a car show turntable with mistakes like that on it?

She said angry at their bosses UAW workers on the factory floors would drop loose screws down the windows in the doors so the dealers could never fix the rattling.

Tunafish sandwiches from lunch would get crammed under the front seat of new cars on the assembly line, on purpose.....