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#76
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Blame sure does a lot of good.
In the end, one side has more to loose from the failure of the two state solution than the other.
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-Marty 1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible (Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one) Reading your M103 duty cycle: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html |
#77
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So, were is the continued investment of a constantly failing venture going to take us? I even dare to say, I fail to see gratitude for America's protectionism. Quote:
Besides that, if I am not mistaken, it was the place they were asking for, didn't they? The absence of gratitude serves very well as a fertile soil for hate.
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#78
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Yeah. I am one of them ...
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#79
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2 thumbs up.
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#80
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Good points. Let me take them one at a time, OK? Point 1: Is Israel justified in killing 200 Palestininams for each Israeli killed? Of course not. However, How many Israelis have been killed in the rocket attacks so far? Here is an interesting link showint the deaths in Israel (19)and the amount of rockets launched against them so far(1888). The HAMAS guys can't seem to do much withtheir rockets! http://vitalperspective.typepad.com/vital_perspective_clarity/2006/08/charts_photos_i.html Point 2: Who shot first? The Arabs have been killing Jewish settlers since back in the 1920's when the British turned a blind eye to what the Arabs were doing in the Trans-Jordan. One must remember that there were always Jews in the area even under the Ottoman Empire. While the Ottomans kept everybody under control, when the British took over after WWI (Under a League of Nations Mandate), they allowed the Arabs to start killing Jews. Point 3: See the article I posted by Debbie Schussel. It is eye opening. Point 4: Isreal was NOT created from Palestine. There was no such natin as Palestine, Israel or Jordan until 1948 when the UN carved up the British Mandate of Trans-Jordan into three countries with Jordan being the biggest and Israel being the smallest. If I remember correctly Israel existed for 12 hours before the Arabs invaded. By Arabs I mean Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Lebonese. See the attached map. The Arabs thought that the Jews would do what they did under Hitler -- DIE MEEKLY. Who knew that they would figt for their survival and even keep their independence? From 1948 until 1967 Israel existed, but Palestine was under Egyptian or Jordanian occupation (see map). In 1967, the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis (remember they were all the UAR then) invaded again. Jordan joined in by shelling Jerusalem. Once again the Israelis did not go quietly into that dark night, but fought back -- and won! This time they took the territory that the invasion had come from (The West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights) They also took the Sinai Penninsula from Egypt. (See map) Once again, in 1973 the Egyptians and the Syrians attacked Israel. Once again Israel beat them (see map) Now you would think that after being atacked four times, the Israelis would never give up any of the territory they had taken. After all it gave them what they desperately needed room to defend themselve in. However, after the 1979 peace agreement with Egypt, they gav the Sinai back to Egypt. They aare also negotiating to give back some of the Golan Heights to Syria - if Syria acknowleges Israel's right to exist. In all this, there was never any atempt by Egypt or Jordan to set up a Palestinian state in the territories they had held from 1949 until 1967. Only ISRAEL has tried to give the Palestinians a homeland. Imagine that!
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"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy" Current Monika '74 450 SL BrownHilda '79 280SL FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee Krystal 2004 Volvo S60 Gone '74 Jeep CJ5 '97 Jeep ZJ Laredo Rudolf ‘86 300SDL Bruno '81 300SD Fritzi '84 BMW '92 Subaru '96 Impala SS '71 Buick GS conv '67 GTO conv '63 Corvair conv '57 Nomad |
#81
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More maps...
Here are some more maps to look at...
Also here is a link to terror attacks inside Israel over from 2000-2004. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/2000-2004-+Major+Terror+Attacks.htm I also stuck in two old maps of the Ottoman Territories for historical perspective.
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"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy" Current Monika '74 450 SL BrownHilda '79 280SL FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee Krystal 2004 Volvo S60 Gone '74 Jeep CJ5 '97 Jeep ZJ Laredo Rudolf ‘86 300SDL Bruno '81 300SD Fritzi '84 BMW '92 Subaru '96 Impala SS '71 Buick GS conv '67 GTO conv '63 Corvair conv '57 Nomad |
#82
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The truth is a *****, ain't she. She will, however, set you free.
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Current Benzes 1989 300TE "Alice" 1990 300CE "Sam Spade" 1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007) 1998 E320 "Orson" 2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox" Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur My Gallery Not in this weather! |
#83
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*DING!* B I N G O ! *DING!* *DING!* *DING!* *DING!* Someone is reading the history books and not between the lines...
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#84
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Palestinian shelling is going to make Israel toe the hard line and send jets in to blow them up. Blowing them up is going to make them shell Israel. Problem is that with the Palestinians not wanting to do a real cease fire for a certain period of time, it is going to make it hard for Israel to want to stop wall building, jetting, etc, etc. I think Iran gets the benefit though. It only sends money and arms to it's pawns, the Palestinians. It is not the Iranians that get missile attacks and what not. In the meantime, the Israelis are too busy with the Palestinians to send jets and ground troops to take out their reactor. Question is whether we need a fort in that section of wilderness or not. If we don't, screw the Israelis. If we do, we have to keep helping them so they are dependent on us and have to do our bidding. Some of it, at least. Well, we do have an influence in some of their moves.
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#85
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Ah, now I am self-limited because I don't agree with you. Golly, the scales fall from my eyes! I was blind and now I see!
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#86
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Somebody can heal blindness? Thought that guy disappeared about 2000 years ago?
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
#87
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Hallelujah!!!
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Current Benzes 1989 300TE "Alice" 1990 300CE "Sam Spade" 1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007) 1998 E320 "Orson" 2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox" Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur My Gallery Not in this weather! |
#88
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At this point, having already promised the Arabs their own lands, Britain also promised Jews a homeland. That's when and where it gets f**ked up. There was never concrete borders decided on what country goes where. Nobody really cared because the Brits and French maintained sovereignty over everything. But it's here, not 1948, that the problems began. One thing is for sure. The Arabs were the majority population under the Ottomans and under the Brits. Between 1919 and 1948, Jewish immigrants flooded the territory that had been not quite defined as the future Jewish country. In fact, Britain imposed immigration rules limiting Jewish immigration to the territory. So the Arabs could not invade the area because they were the ones living there. Quote:
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Israel has tried to give them bits and pieces spread around in little pockets, surrounded by Israel - and walled off. More like a prison camp than homeland. We're still missing the forest for the trees though. If Israel had kept to what it stated in its declaration creating the state: We appeal ... to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. then there would be no desire to suicide bomb. An equal society is a relatively happy one. It's hard to get happy, or at least contented, people to kill themselves with vest bombs.
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1984 300TD |
#89
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If I were an Israeli, I'd love a million-to-one. Bet the Gazanians (Gazites? Gazooks?) are "dying" to better their kill ratio, too.
Whomever thinks that there should be "balance" and "fairness" in a death match is either crazy or has never been in a death match situation. It is always, always, always preferable for teh enemy to die and friendlies to survive. Doesn't matter if you're Israeli or Gazatian. Kill the other side is what you want. From the opposite side, you always want the pain to the enemy for inflicting pain on friendlies to be "disproportionately" great. You bomb my mosque, I flatten your Kibbutz. And vice-versa. In both cases, consistency is paramount. Faltering, second-guessing, seeking accommodation with the enemy is a sure-fire way to encourage the enemy to stay his course. Never offer a carrot unless you have a hell of a stick and are completely prepared and willing to use it. Again and again and again. On the other hand, if you can't sustain the effort and casualties, giving-up the carrot early saves everybody a lot of pain, death and misery. B |
#90
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The problem with what you are saying is that you are thinking it is a boxing match where after the bell rings, you go to your corner and I go to mine. In this case, the winner took the territory after the fight. If the 48 war didn't take place and the Israelis took territory, you have a point. Taking the loser's territory after a fight is pretty common.
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